GAR Updates?

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WearsHats
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Or you could look at it this way: Last October, things with G:AR seemed to be more or less on track. They had a working demo of the game, and were going to conventions to test play it and build up some publicity. At NYCC, they shared a booth with the RA team. They'd done two successful Kickstarters, and were getting ready to publish the game and start development work on the next one.

So they made a deal with RA that the next game would be theirs. But then G:AR playtesting set everything back. They realized that they had to rework everything. So they didn't announce the RA game and have not started work on it. All there is on it is a FB page, which is easy and free to create.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:54 pm

That certainly makes sense, Hats. But if that's true, it only underlines the one-horse nature of this company. And according to that horse's twitter feed, what our boy Richard mostly appears to be up to these days is clubbing in Vegas and chasing after female DJs.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rcjames14/tweets

Now maybe he comes from money, but when I see a guy who as far as I can tell has no job other than the one he gave himself as head of a company that isn't producing much of anything partying to the break of day in Sin City...well, let me just repeat my point about grains of salt the size of Gibraltar.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by evertidegames » Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:18 pm

Thank you to the backers who personally pointed me to this thread recently. I also want to thank everyone who has raised their concerns or expressed their support in their comments. Some of you may have already received the update to our backers which was written by myself and Graydon and posted a few days ago. Hopefully it will answer some of your questions. To reply to the questions not covered by the update:

EG's website is currently out because of a problem with a corruption in one of the SQL tables which occurred at some point a few months ago as we were working on the wiki appliance. This corruption has been causing the server to crash and the site has been down because of the difficulty the people I rely upon for technical support have encountered trying to rebuild the tables. They have been trying to find solutions to get everything back up but so far nothing has worked out.

Our team is currently testing and preparing the game for publication. After numerous failures, the version we have right now is finally workable and we are making rapid progress on its polish. But, due to the idiosyncracies of design and the delays we experienced coordinating production and distribution with the printer for our previous project, unfortunately, I'm still not able to provide a set timetable for release at this point.

The requirements associated with running a publishing operation have been taxing on not only myself but everyone in the small design team that we have. There have been numerous expenses and problems we did not anticipate which have resulted in embarrassing product development and delivery delays. So on behalf of everyone, I apologize to all our backers for the delays which have occurred.

Despite the fact that it is taking us a while to do so, we are committed to delivering a great game and rewards to the project backers. But, I also recognize that all the work required to do so with the organization that we have in place has been responsible for much of the delay and lack of communication. So, I have been exploring new arrangements with manufacturers, distributors and other publishers which I hope will help overcome the organizational obstacles we have encountered and accelerate the process of publication and delivery.

We have also been re-arranging the way we handle communication so that you receive more frequent progress reports and questions/issues you have go answered. If you do have questions, feel free to email us at: support@evertidegames.com

This process has been trying for me and the team and I appreciate the patience that everyone has shown. I also want to thank everyone again for their support for the project as we work through it.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by RocketScientist » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:41 pm

Thanks for the update. I'm sure that will ease a lot of the backers' concerns. You've got quite a lot on your plate. I would be completely overwhelmed. Best of luck and smooth sailing in the future.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:26 am

Thanks for the reply, Richard.

The website issues sound like a major pain. I hope that can get sorted soon.

I also got an email reply from Richard, who was hurt by the unfounded accusations that he's just blowing everything partying in Vegas. He said he didn't know how to respond to that directly without coming off wrong, but gave me a pretty good accounting of things and authorized me to relay information on his behalf.

First off: He confirms that I was right about the RA game. They've long had plans to do the game, but have not done any work on it yet other than reserving the FB page. First things first, and that means dealing with existing obligations.

G:AR - Richard is working on the game every day. He's giving it his all. Working on it every day and putting in long hours.

Mr. Card Game: They've been scrambling to get rewards packed and shipped. It's a huge undertaking, and a major time sink, but it is happening.

Vegas: Evertide temporarily relocated to Vegas to cut costs. Rent there for the space they needed was a lot cheaper, and they wanted to cut overhead. If, after a long day's work, he decides to go out dancing every now and again, that's his business. It certainly doesn't mean he's wasting time or money.

Money: He's not blowing it. He's taking minimal salary. Less than his due. Well below minimum wage, actually. He has no other income, but the company comes first.

More generally... He made some good points in his email to me. Like I said, he wasn't sure how to express them without coming off wrong. I'm also walking a bit of a fine line here since I'm on the mod team but this isn't my section. Still, I've got something to say. And understand that it is coming from me. Richard specifically said that he didn't want to be confrontational. I think some degree of that is called for here.

Frustrations with the delays and all are perfectly understandable. You have every right to express them. But personal attacks are over the line, and picking apart his personal posts to build up a whole (highly inaccurate) picture of him as a wastrel is entirely inappropriate.

I've met him. He's a good guy. He's nothing like the picture you're trying to paint of him. He's dedicated and committed to making Evertide work. It's a difficult, risky field, but he's giving it everything he's got. He's entitled to some downtime. Entitled to blow off some steam now and again. Entitled to some privacy. His tweets are public, but meant for friends. Digging through them to fabricate a profile of the man and his life is, if not precisely a breach of privacy, very disrespectful. And to think that you can make a complete picture of his life from a few snapshots of his time off is both arrogant and foolhardy. It's not a representative sample, not by a longshot.

One final note, purely from me:

I was the single top donor to the G:AR campaign. That doesn't give me any more right to call the shots than you have, but I think it does carry some weight. Obviously, it would have been better all around if the game had shipped last year as planned. But, frankly, I'd rather have a good game done right than a flawed game sent out because it was time. Chucking the existing system and starting over from scratch isn't easy, but the designers deemed it necessary and worthwhile. They've sacrificed to make it happen. In the long run, from what I can tell, it was the right choice. A hard choice, but the right one.

Bottom line: There are legitimate criticisms to make about how things happened and how they were handled. But Richard is working his butt off to make it all work. Try to have patience. I expect it will be worth it.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:52 am

Well, that's quite the update. Very well, Hats, you win. If/when Evertide delivers the game, I will gladly sing Richard's praises and offer whatever apology is asked for. Heck, I'll pay my freight to GenCon and you can hold me while he punches me in the face. Until then, I'll let the matter rest.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Guus » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:29 pm

Don't let yourself get punched in the face, that's really bad for your teeth! And nose! And other parts of your face that you need!
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:30 pm

Heh. No need to go that far. And, like I said, there are legitimate complaints to make. The game has been delayed, and they haven't been very good about keeping us posted as to what's going on and why. I think there are good reasons for the delay, but it's still not great.

Personal attacks and libel, however, are more serious matters which are against the boards rules. And, well, I already said the rest. No need to repeat it.

You don't need to sit down and shut up. Fair criticism is welcome. But be respectful about it, okay?
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Guus » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:37 am

I haven't backed this game, but I might very well buy it once it comes out (and ships to the Netherlands). I sure am glad that I DIDN'T back it though, if I'm honest.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:00 pm

WearsHats wrote:Heh. No need to go that far. And, like I said, there are legitimate complaints to make. The game has been delayed, and they haven't been very good about keeping us posted as to what's going on and why. I think there are good reasons for the delay, but it's still not great.

Personal attacks and libel, however, are more serious matters which are against the boards rules. And, well, I already said the rest. No need to repeat it.

You don't need to sit down and shut up. Fair criticism is welcome. But be respectful about it, okay?
OK, so let's turn the thread around. Instead of witching about how we don't have the game yet, how can we help? Richard been banging his head against the wall for more than a year trying to make this work with no luck. Crowd source some solutions. If Kore is a problem because whoever has him can drive around the table whiping everyone out, for example, maybe he can't be a playable character. Instead he's a kind of treasure you can use once. Maybe that doesn't work for some other reason but it never hurts to have more than one set of eyes on the problem, and he has 2000+ eager to help. If it worked for D&D Next it can work for G:AR.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by RocketScientist » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:24 pm

"If you exploit this loophole, Richard gets to drive to your house and punch you in the face."

"If Richard is busy, he can send his minions backers."

How's that?

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:09 pm

In related news, evertide's web site has flickered back to life.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:35 pm

Yay! Progress.

Richard, BTW, very much appreciates the offer of help. He's not sure there's anything he can delegate right now, but he's thinking about it.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by nikohl » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:54 pm

Hey, its not just me offering to help and asking to post emails here then, heh.

As a Mr Card Game backer I got the most recent email re: that game, so I replied and asked some questions about GAR and got a frank and honest reply which is in line with everything already posted here. I just wanted to re-confirm that we've not been forgotten and we shouldn't lose patience (or hope!)

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by ChaoticCore » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:18 am

Anything new?

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:09 am

Nothing since the reply upthread. But based on the timeline sketched out last year, which seemed to envision about a four- or five-month production and delivery process once the game was finalized, I think we are pretty much at the point where we can close the door on 2014. Hopefully we see something in the mail next year...

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by errantcoyote » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:46 am

I continue to lurk on these forums because Goblins fans are generally interesting, intelligent, and kind. I wanted to post a comment regarding GAR on the Kickstarter page, but I'm a Paypal supporter and not allowed to comment on the page. I sent this email to Evertide support:

"Dear Evertide Games,

It has been over a year since you gathered up over $175,000 to create "Goblins: Alternate Realities." Since then, the thousands of backers have only received sporadic communications, excuses for your latest failures, and empty promises. Considering that this project was originally budgeted $30,000, your performance has been abysmal. At best you are a piss-poor business. At worst, you are fraudulent thieves. Currently, I believe the truth lies in-between. Please convince me otherwise. Refund my $55.00.

I am disappointed and angry. I hope you saved enough in your budget for a strong legal team, because reading the comments on your KICKSTARTER page gives me the distinct impression that you will soon face a class-action lawsuit. If I don't have my refund before this happens, you can rest assured I will join the lawsuit wholeheartedly.

Do the right thing, Evertide Games!"

Admittedly, the reference to a class-action lawsuit was all bluster and even if there was a suit brought, I probably wouldn't get involved. I don't expect to see the game or my $55. Just a life lesson, I suppose. For me, this has no negative reflection on Thunt and I only hope he continues his recovery. This is squarely on Evertide Games, and unfortunately it further indicts the Kickstarter model of business.

@Drinksbeer: you are a paragon of patience with your statement "Hopefully we will see something in the mail next year." Cheers.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Krulle » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:14 am

Yeah, i remember some of the reactions when I wrote that I will not support the game, since it will not financially support THunt, but Evertide Games.
I am not that interested in a Goblins game, and what THunt gets out of it is personal satisfaction as an artist (which is good), but also a lot of work, and maybe sometime down the line a bit of royality.

I hope for THunt and all others that the game comes, especially since THunt could use a boost in that regard, instead of this sword hanging over him (I am pretty sure he blames himself for having convinced us to spend a lot of money on this, admittedly interesting, project).

Likely I'll buy the game when I see it in the local store, just to push the stats on physical copies sold through stores, but I find it unlikely it will hit here (absolutely no store nearby having role playing games) or in my favourite German city.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Guus » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:40 am

Does the games workshop in The Hague have nothing?
Otherwise, Rotterdam has Gamers of the West, where you can get all kinds of tabletop games, Card games and board games.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Krulle » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:31 pm

I don't go to the citycentre of s'Gravenhaghe, except for meetings friends and the school of my kids.
So, no time for the games shop there.
My village does only have two toy stores of the big chains, and not one of them has the standard games like Settlers, let alone special games...
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by spiderwrangler » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:52 pm

Backers should have gotten an email from the president of Evertide.... long story short, rough times for his company, still plugging away.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by RocketScientist » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:22 pm

[mod="RocketScientist"]I have removed a post containing the full contents of the private email. There was no indication given that the poster had permission to share the contents publicly. If someone can confirm that permission has been granted, then they can go ahead and repost the message.[/mod]

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by spiderwrangler » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:38 pm

Yeah... that's why I only posted a rough sketch of what he'd sent... I figured it was for the backers that it was sent to...
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by RocketScientist » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:55 pm

Yeah, that was plenty of information for the general public if he hasn't given permission to post his business all over the internet. Thanks.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:10 pm

FWIW, it's already out there. Richard sent a similar update with the same story about his company to Mr. Card Game backers in July as an explanation why international orders weren't being fulfilled. That was promptly posted to comments on both the G:AR and MCG pages and has been the subject of extreme dissatisfaction ever since.

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