Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Discussion Thread

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spiderwrangler
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:15 pm

@Wears - I know you said you felt like you didn't have anything better to do, but Gabe can still work on getting the beanie's little steam engine running, if you wanted to pass the rake and allen wrench off to Sam......
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:36 pm

This is what my current thoughts on leveling would look like.

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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by WearsHats » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:53 pm

spiderwrangler wrote:@Wears - I know you said you felt like you didn't have anything better to do, but Gabe can still work on getting the beanie's little steam engine running, if you wanted to pass the rake and allen wrench off to Sam......
I have no objections. I've lost track of how that would affect the numbers, but if it would speed things along significantly, I'm more than willing. I can always make a pick gun in the workshop if we find we need one. With more SP and better tools, it should go faster.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:02 am

Crazy stuff happening over in the official thread... I thought up these ideas early on, and debated about implementing them given that we are trying to balance other stuff too... but figured what he heck, it'll be fun.... I hope... :D

Each character has a backstory based (some looser than other) special ability that they can 'unlock' given the right series of circumstances, or by attempting something in the correct manner. I HOPE that they all fit within the character you've developed, and make for some interesting gameplay and choices.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by WearsHats » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:50 pm

That's a cool idea. And yes, mine fits quite nicely. Neat! 8)
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:08 am

WearsHats wrote:That's a cool idea. And yes, mine fits quite nicely. Neat! 8)
Good!
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:49 am

Between feeling ill, trying to get research done, and preparing to present at a conference (that I hope I'm better by), I haven't gotten around to making much progress on the next update. I plan on providing descriptions/lists of the various tools and such at the workbenches, as well as the supplies on the (as yet undiscovered) shelves. Please bear with me, I'll hopefully get something up soon.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by LAYF » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:52 am

Take your time spider :) there is no reason to drive your self into the ground, so far we (I at least) Really enjoy the game... so we will wait :D
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by WearsHats » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:12 am

Gabe wears the simple clothing of a peasant. Black boots, brown trousers, black leather belt, white v-neck shirt, brown vest. It's similar in style to what Gil is wearing on this page. He would look perfectly ordinary if not for his hat and his cane.

His hat is actually more like a helmet. In fact, it seems likely that it was originally developed from something like this:
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The black helmet has been largely obscured by mechanical workings. A small boiler on the back connects, via narrow pipes, gears, and levers, to a propeller assembly on the top (where the spike used to be). The front, where once there might have been a metal crest of some sort, now has a brass cutout of a smiling face.

Below the face is a metal plaque and length of decorative cord like this:
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Except that the plaque reads "TREGER PORTER SERVICES" and the cord is gold in color.

Gabe's cane has a color scheme much like this one:
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The coppery red base is covered in gleaming brass filigree made to look like vines of ivy. But if you know what you're doing, you can release some of the bits, which turn out to be cleverly disguised allen wrenches and other tools. The handle is a round wooden knob which unscrews to reveal a small cache of spare parts as well as a set of nested screwdrivers. Kind of like this:
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The shaft also unscrews from the middle, revealing a hidden compartment with some more spare parts and a multitool.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:40 pm

New update up! Bourbon is holding the cold at bay.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by Nerre » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:11 am

I assume we all did introduce us to each other now? Since nobody reacted on what Hiero said last turn, which is a shame cause I now got nothing to react to to do some smalltalk. I would like to have some more interaction with you. Does anybody have knowledge that might help me with building a steam generator? We might need some power later on and the castle said it can only reroute power from time to time.

Spider: In case I overestimate the knowledge we got left, can you please let me do some analyzing/learning of said topic rather than getting told ingame that my char has not enough knowledge about the topic and therefore cannot do anything said turn? I would prefer not wasting turns for what is more of a OOC-info than a Ingame-Info. Would really appreciate it. I know it may take long to succeed, but it only takes longer if turns end with zero SP-generation and knowledge gain. If you want I can pre-post my actions in the OOC so you can estimate it in advance and I don't come to nothing with my ideas. (Not sure if I got the meaning right. Should be like: beat one's head against a stone wall. The german equivalent would be "run into the void".)
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by LAYF » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:21 am

Hmm.. yes Bunn bunn did some time ago.. Ursula has done it... I'm nor sure If sam and gabe did it "openly" or just one on one :S and Hiero... well, you know that:)

Hmm.. I don't see Bun Bunn walking around dabbling in steam as he is more the spring powered kind a guy... but if Hiero as much as says "boing" Bunn Bunn will be over there in a split second sniffing for flexible metals/asking what Hiero has found..
**not sure if it translate, but "boing" is the sound of a spring jumping/landing...

And yea, I've not bee n super interactive if it has not had anything to do with Sam's legs (and in extension the lock, since the longer time people used on that, the more time Bunn Bunn would have to examine the legs...)
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by Nerre » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:36 am

Thanks. I know the basic comic onomatopoeia. :D
I will think about how I can involve you. If your char does not mind hopping around a half hour to recharge me a little bit we can build a mechanical dynamo. :D
Just isolating the spring and putting a magnet in which could move separately should generate some voltage.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by LAYF » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:38 am

Nerre wrote:Thanks. I know the basic comic onomatopoeia. :D
I will think about how I can involve you. If your char does not mind hopping around a half hour to recharge me a little bit we can build a mechanical dynamo. :D
Just isolating the spring and putting a magnet in which could move separately should generate some voltage.
Heck, if you strap springs to Bunn Bunn feet I'd like to see you STOP him from jumping around in half an hour.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by Nerre » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:41 am

Then you go for springs, I will go for magnets. :D
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by LAYF » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:53 am

Yep, just ask him in character next round (already doing stuff this one) and he will be looking for some big enough right away, you do not even have to say for what.. just "Bunn Bunn, would you be interested in finding some big springs and strap them to your.... Bunn Bunn?" <-- yep, he'd already be at it here!
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by WearsHats » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:47 am

Nerre wrote:I assume we all did introduce us to each other now? Since nobody reacted on what Hiero said last turn, which is a shame cause I now got nothing to react to to do some smalltalk. I would like to have some more interaction with you. Does anybody have knowledge that might help me with building a steam generator? We might need some power later on and the castle said it can only reroute power from time to time.
Yes, Gabe introduced himself. No one responded. He's also too concerned with the dead body to engage in small talk right now. (Before, he was focused on getting the door open, and I've been feeling very poorly this week).

Gabe does have some small skill in steam engines, but knows nothing about electrical power other than that it's related to lightning. He is also, as mentioned, focused on the dead body right now.
Spider: In case I overestimate the knowledge we got left, can you please let me do some analyzing/learning of said topic rather than getting told ingame that my char has not enough knowledge about the topic and therefore cannot do anything said turn? I would prefer not wasting turns for what is more of a OOC-info than a Ingame-Info. Would really appreciate it. I know it may take long to succeed, but it only takes longer if turns end with zero SP-generation and knowledge gain. If you want I can pre-post my actions in the OOC so you can estimate it in advance and I don't come to nothing with my ideas. (Not sure if I got the meaning right. Should be like: beat one's head against a stone wall. The german equivalent would be "run into the void".)
Not to usurp the GM's place (which is why I didn't say anything before) but this was addressed on the first page of this thread, the last time you tried to generate electricity:
spiderwrangler wrote:The mind wipe doesn't affect other memories, so none of you are suffering from amnesia as such. You know that you've made impressive creations in the past, you just can't recall how. It's like riding a bike, except now your mind and body aren't able to recall what is needed to do it and you have to relearn how to balance and maintain momentum.

So technically, as of right now, to use Hiero as an example, he wouldn't know be able to recall how to use magnets and wires to generate current (which is why I just bypassed it as ranting). He recalls some information about how to store a charge in capacitors, and through exploration/crafting, etc., may regain knowledge about Current Generation Generating Current.
In the game thread (again, first page) he ignored Hiero's posted action and instead said that he was ranting and looked crazy. Then the above was posted here, in the OOC thread, so you'd know what happened. We also discussed the subject of how much our characters know (and, specifically, the subject of electrical power) back in the recruitment thread before the game started.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:18 am

Wears even pointed this out to me again when I asked.

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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by Nerre » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:42 am

How about letting people actually enjoy the game instead of discussing it dead for them? You are really spoiling the fun for me, Wears. How about caring more for your posts than mine or at least helping me if you have to get busy about it? Just writing that I do it wrong without any suggestion how to do it right is called negative criticism. And like I said, I got more important things to do in my life than this game and do not have the ability to memorize every word ever written in this game. I prefer to actually read not much more OOC than ingame text. This get's totally out of hands.

I am trying hard to read up with all the ingame and OOC stuff, get what is happening around Hiero and write some decent roleplay fitting to the rest, but I cannot start by zero knowledge of anything. I only did what others did and changed my attempt a bit after it did not work the first time. Having no knowledge how to use something is something different than not knowing how to use it. Badge did the same for his lock picking machine, he did not start by "hey, what is this metal frame in the door with the hole in it and why doesn't the door open?", he started by knowing what a lock is and tried to pick it. I did not see skills for that in his sheet. He just understood the principle or got a idea and tried it out, maybe even remembered it.
That is fine. We are sparks. Our memory being blanked about some skills is not the same than us being stupid. We still can catch the basics of simple prinicples with one glimpse. We will remember basic things normal people do. Else some would have had problems putting on their clothes for example or to open their backpacks. Or how would we have gotten the idea of a lockpick? So if I write Hiero remembers that when cooking tea the steam can build up some pressure, that is nothing spectacular. Much simpler than a pick gun. Any peasant could notice and understand that when cooking coffee or tea. So the spark part is thinking about how to transform the power or use it for something else or understanding the principle behind it or put it into numbers. And this is where I let him experiment and collect a few things that might help, nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Same for the magnets. Knowing they are used in something you did every day for years, does not mean you know how to put it together, or how to calculate proper circuit diagrams. He does not know the magnets are part of the generator core, being spun and generating a current inside a coil wound around them. He will have to find that out by analyzing or finding parts in the castle. I will then roleplay his knowledge gain according to the SP gain.

Sam noticed instantly that putting his feet against the wall gives him greater leverage when trying to force pull it open than when standing on the ground.

So please tell me why anything I wrote is more an "out of the blue" idea than this:
WearsHats wrote:Hmm, with a small coil spring, a small leaf spring, an allen wrench, and a spark's ingenuity, I wonder if I could make a pick gun. Gabe might have encountered something of the sort while doing deliveries, perhaps looking over a locksmith's shoulder when the house owner got locked out. (I was introduced to it in college, because some engineering students are just that way. The computers in one of the clusters I frequented were all named for lockpicking equipment.)

Basically, a pick gun consists of a thin metal strip which, with the help of a spring, can be vibrated at various speeds. That bumps all the lock's tumblers at once. Eventually, with a little luck and timing, you can get them to all click into place at the same time.
This is so many different skills combined I did not expect us to succeed in building it so early in the game. Doing this and telling me remembering about magnets is too much is close to rude. Practice what you preach! I don't see this tool being even remotely related to your skills. You are starting an argument about things you do not do yourself but want me to do.

We can continue to discuss and argue like that or we just enjoy the game and allow each other to have fun in roleplaying.

OOC's original intend in most games is to ask questions and to get answers from the GM without disturbing the game flow, not to discuss everything into details it becomes a manifold of effort to keep up with OOC than the main games. I remember the times when OOC were seens as "optional"!
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:23 am

Nerre...I think i understand the problem here. It was pointed out several times that this is a "steampunk" game. Electricity has no current value in this world, and i think (not to speak for him) that Spider has said as much to you (to all of us) before now.

However, you continuing to have these......"blow ups" is also frustrating...

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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by Nerre » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:29 am

Steampunk includes electricity, same for the comic. You cannot achieve everything with mechanical or chemical power. If we are playing a game based on girl genious: the comic is full of it! Many things run on electricity there and it is more than just strong as lightning current.

I don't read the past discussions and posts in such a way that they mean there is no electricity in this world. Why else would Spider let me have the capacitors and stuff? And why would the castle talk about rerouting energy? I think it is part of the game, and I am 100% sure it is part of the comic.

Sorry for the outburst, but it annoyed me to be told by a player (not the gm) how to play the game in a "not this way" manner.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:43 am

Irked GM post below....


If you don't like that there is an OOC thread, why did you sign up for a game that I said was going to be heavy on the playtesting, as the system I'm trying to implement is a work in progress? If I had everything dialed in, there would be less need to get feedback and discuss things in this thread, as all the rules and parameters would be outlined initially and not be in a state of flux. At it's core, this is essentially a playtest of an openended crafting system, that I'm trying to make fun at the same time.

Your example of a pickgun is pointless as an example of another player achieving tech as advanced as an electrical generator... first because it's not, second because IT WAS NEVER BUILT, and third, because it was based on parts at hand. I was on the fence about whether Gabe would know enough to construct one, but rather than saying flat out that he couldn't, I assigned it a CP comparable to picking the lock straight and tried to leave it up to the players.

This differs from your repeated attempts to build an advanced electrical generator... first because it's advanced. The knowledge required to build one is far beyond that of the average person, and as a spark who has been wiped, it is beyond your knowledge. You may have a vague recollection that such a device is possible, but are unable to approach it all in one go. You also repeatedly attempt to build things without the necessary parts. You were just dumped in a underground room in Castle Heterodyne, your compatriots are picking locks with bits of wire and bent forks, scrounging for weapons in the cutlery drawer, and you're wanting to create a steam engine that can power a magnet/coil apparatus to generate electricity. Out of WHAT?! All your character has at the moment is a piece of moss on his head. Sure, you want to build an steam engine out of a moss toupee? I can either tell you in game that you don't have the parts needed, or I could have set a CP of 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. Would that be preferable to telling you that you can't do anything with what you don't have?

You don't like 'wasting a turn' by being told that you can't do something? I see that as a just penalty for asking to do something that you should know by now is impossible.

Instead of spazzing out at the other players and me, try playing within the parameters of the game. Your repeated requests for this are like a 1st level Fighter claiming he wants to craft a belt buckle into a masterwork broadsword.

I'd suggest you trust in me to EVENTUALLY give you the chance to gain the skills and items required to build cool things... that's where the fun should be found. If you had an electrical generator, what would you do with it? Charge yourself up and then what? Try to make a clank out of dust and moss?

Regarding electricity/not electricity. It exists in this world, but certainly does not have wall plugs that the Castle could just let people plug into.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:52 am

Ok... better, but you're still throwing a ton of stuff at me.


Actions:
  • Hiero also checks the room.
  • Hiero searches for a tea pot or something similar
  • pours water in from the sink
  • heats it on the stove.
  • studies how strong it is to see what he can do.
  • looks for several kinds of tubes or pipes
  • tests which one can withstand the heat of the hot steam.
  • He also checks for tools he can use to connect the parts. Like a monkey wrench, plumber's solder and things like that.
  • looks for magnets.
Rather than searching for particular items, you might try searching a particular area and see what you DO find.

As posted, my update response would likely be something along the lines of:
Hiero searches for a teapot. He doesn't find one, and spends the rest of the turn sulking.
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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:09 am

spiderwrangler wrote:
Actions:
  • Hiero also checks the room.
  • Hiero searches for a tea pot or something similar
  • pours water in from the sink
  • heats it on the stove.
  • studies how strong it is to see what he can do.
  • looks for several kinds of tubes or pipes
  • tests which one can withstand the heat of the hot steam.
  • He also checks for tools he can use to connect the parts. Like a monkey wrench, plumber's solder and things like that.
  • looks for magnets.
Not only that, but Spider also told us specifically that this was to be approached in the standard method of (1 move, 1 major action, 1 Minor action) and you just tried to do about 1million major actions at the same time.

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Re: Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Player Discussion Thre

Post by WearsHats » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:50 am

I'm not telling you how to play the game, Nerre. I don't want to fight here, either, as I am also trying to have fun.

You posted to say that your character wanted to build a generator. The GM told you in this thread that he didn't know how. At the next opportunity, you posted to do the same thing. The GM posted in the game thread that you didn't know how. So you posted here to say that it wasn't fair and the GM should have warned you in this thread. (Which you now say you prefer not to read.)

I responded to tell you that, in fact, he had done exactly that the first time you tried it. I don't know what you're ranting about that I'm telling you what to do. I'm telling you that your complaint to the GM was off base, and you should have known.

This is a habit of yours. You don't pay attention, and then you complain that no one told you. When it's pointed out that you were told, you complain that you're being victimized because you're being asked to pay attention. And when you find that you need to know something, you ask to be spoon-fed information that you should have been able to find for yourself in less time than it took to ask the question.

The pick gun? Yeah, I knew that it was a reach. I knew there was a chance that the GM would rule that I didn't know how to do it. If he had, I would have accepted it and moved on. But I figured it was a simple mechanical device that he could maybe have plausibly seen, and, if he put the parts together, he could experiment and figure it out. It doesn't require an advanced understanding of the physics of invisible forces. It's just a wire that you shake.

I don't think you have to go back to basics of noticing that you can harness steam energy. Steam power is all around you. I did say that my character knew something about building steam engines. Had you been paying attention, you would have seen that, in fact, he's already repaired one. But he's very concerned right now that someone was attacked and killed in their supposedly safe workshop. He's stopped his own work to investigate that. If something got in and killed this guy (who likely was also a spark), then Gabe wants to know what it was and how it got in.

That's as much as I intend to say. I don't want to turn this into a fight. I don't want to ruin the game for people. (Nikohl, I apologize to you for snapping at you when you were in the same position.) You attacked me for saying things I didn't think I had. I feel I've clarified my position now. I'm moving on.
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