Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

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M0rtimer
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:32 pm

Hmmm... The delvers said they only had part of the medalion, right? I suppose that makes this the other half. And I guess their names might just be inseperable by birth, after all...

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Synch
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Synch » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:55 pm

M0rtimer wrote:Hmmm... The delvers said they only had part of the medalion, right? I suppose that makes this the other half. And I guess their names might just be inseperable by birth, after all...
:roll:
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M0rtimer
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:54 pm

Hey, you were the one who solved the cypher to end up with "wakes the dead" then proceeded to completely ignore it while obviously it had to have SOME significance... I was simply presuming that we had to figure out the other name with wakes the dead being one, not that it would lead to one half of the amulet. :p

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thinkslogically
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:14 pm

To be fair I don't think Synch ever publicly (or privately to me at least) explained where he got the answers from, so I guess some confusion is warranted.

Also, making puzzles is surprisingly difficult. The more you express your confusion / bewilderment / scorn at the puzzle quality in my games, the more I can tweak them so they actually work / make sense / are solvable etc. I won't go I to details while you're still working stuff out, but this area has been an interesting collision between my game notes and your reactions :lol:

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Dlover
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Dlover » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:05 pm

Ah, yes, the dreaded "No, what are you doing, stop, why" :P
My game:
Hunters of Letrua; Character list
Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

My characters:
Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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M0rtimer
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:10 pm

Well, if you want feedback...

-The cipher was quite obviously a cipher, but it was probably too tough for the scope of this game. I might be talking slightly out of my ass here, considering I'm not proficient with ciphers, but one of the things about ciphers is that firstly there are many different kinds of ciphers, and different ways to apply them. It might look easy creating one, but while the cipher was ultimately a letter substitution, we had no frame of reference to know how to create a solution guide- The simplest option, place DEATH somewhere in the alphabet and then go alphabetically with the missing letters, would still give us 26 possible combinations to try out until we got a solution. I know for a fact I tried some easy substitutions, but failed to find anything myself.

So on that note I'm curious to see how exactly Synch did discover the solution guide, assuming he didn't just brute force possibilities until he got something that made sense.

Anyways... I'm not saying ciphers are a definite "no no", but unless you have players that know some things about cryptography, I'd stick with simple substitution ciphers where it's possible to find enough of the actual solution to solve. You could give us a strange jumbled up alphabet, which provides a solution if put next to the actual alphabet. You could give us a sentence, which turns out to be the translation of part of a bigger cipher- Allowing us to find out many of the much needed solutions, from which we can work and make reasonable deductions to fill in the rest.

-Checking out wakes the dead statue/plaque (After we discovered this was a possibility, at least) should have been obvious to us. I was just being a derp thinking we had to do something with the statues to find the second brother instead.

-Lack of clarity: Currently it seems like we got the correct solution, but finding a name by solving a cipher really seemed to suggest that we were (or are and we're still wrong) supposed to solve the other clue and consecutively, give the delvers the two names that are the solution. However, at this point I still have no idea of what the purpose behind "little wonders" was- And to be fair, there is only very little suggesting the two brothers in the crypt are the brothers we seek, the only special thing about them that they got their own crypt.

Not that some ambiguity is bad, nor do you need puzzles to spell out "Okay yeah this is the answer good job you did it", but you don't want your players second guessing themselves either.

Of course, this is all far easier said than done, and ultimately it was a rather nicely laid out intricate puzzle that we eventually managed to solve.

Maybe. I have not yet completely discredited the fact their names are actually "Death is the key" and "Little wonders" :roll:

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thinkslogically
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:57 pm

That's cool,thanks for the feedback. I'll wait till you're done with this section before I explain anything but I appreciate the comments :)

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Dlover
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Dlover » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:29 pm

M0rtimer wrote:So on that note I'm curious to see how exactly Synch did discover the solution guide, assuming he didn't just brute force possibilities until he got something that made sense.
Didn't Synch say that he just moved Death to the front of the alphabet?
M0rtimer wrote:-Lack of clarity: Currently it seems like we got the correct solution, but finding a name by solving a cipher really seemed to suggest that we were (or are and we're still wrong) supposed to solve the other clue and consecutively, give the delvers the two names that are the solution. However, at this point I still have no idea of what the purpose behind "little wonders" was- And to be fair, there is only very little suggesting the two brothers in the crypt are the brothers we seek, the only special thing about them that they got their own crypt.
I'm guessing that had we followed through the "Wakes the Dead" part before going down we would have found the little people at the Pool of Wonders and said "Oh, these are the 'little wonders', so they'll have the other half."
My game:
Hunters of Letrua; Character list
Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

My characters:
Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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Synch
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Synch » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:11 pm

OK, I fucking love puzzles. These are all my summations.

As soon as I saw the puzzle I figured it was a keyword cipher, because I do geocaching and a lot of people use codes/puzzles in their geocaching clues. Keyword ciphers merely have you remove and place the keyword's letters at the start of the alphabet then map the 'new alphabet' to the existing one. We just needed a keyword. Then reading back I saw one of you found a clue "Death is the key" which suddenly made it obvious what to do, and I ran DEATH as the keyword and the jumbled sentence through a keyword cipher decoder to get the solution.
This left me with "Wakes the Dead", which I figured was probably the name of a goblin, but I also thought it might relate to the bonfire in front of the puzzle somehow. I mean, why else is there a brazier/bonfire there? I figured maybe the fire opened the crypts or something. But once we found the "Wakes the Dead" statue that became obvious too, but there was a gargoyle in the way before I could do anything else.

I didn't ignore it M0rt, I even explained in-game that I thought it might relate to the fire.

"Little Wonders" has to relate to the little people. Most obviously the other half of the amulet, but could also be that the crypt the clue is on is the name of the brothers who made the riddle. And, not-so-coincidentally, Inseperable-At-Birth is the name of siblings inside the crypts. And now, it looks like its their amulet too.


In summary, each of the brothers had half an amulet, presumably the little people at the Pool of Wonders have the other half, and Inseperable-At-Birth is the name of the (siamese twin) brothers.
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thinkslogically
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by thinkslogically » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:27 pm

Thanks Synch! Glad you enjoyed them :) any chance you can explain where you got the names "Inseparable at birth"? I'm not sure anyone else has picked up on it (publicly).

I get that puzzles aren't everyone's cup of tea so I do try to limit them a bit, but it's tricky because I grew up playing old school point and click adventure games so I kind of default to puzzles of one form or another when I'm looking for a player challenge.

Combat I think is my weaker suit, but my rl d&d gane is actually helping a ton with that and I'm working on it. Your latest gargoyle battles were a better balanced challenge for you guys IMO (it was meant to be tough but not deadly). Hopefully you'll get some more interesting fights as we go through the rest of the game that are a bit less grindy.

Regarrdless, I hope you guys ares still having fun overall with this and thanks for sticking with it as long as you have :D

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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Dlover » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:10 pm

Weren't those the names on the graves where the clues were? And since one of them has lead to an amulet piece, it's pretty much guaranteed that those are the names.
My game:
Hunters of Letrua; Character list
Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

My characters:
Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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Synch
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Synch » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:10 am

Mentioned Inseperable-At-Birth here, as well as it saying Masters meaning both had the same name:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... rth#p73212

Two crypts with the same name (presumably twins or siamese twins):
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... th#p199639

Me theorizing here:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... th#p206679

And then everyone ignored me :)
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:13 am

I didn't ignore it M0rt, I even explained in-game that I thought it might relate to the fire.
Yeah I was mostly jesting- I knew you had IC(OOC?) thoughts about it, I just didn't think it was correct- It wouldn't make sense that we were looking for a name and that we'd find a riddle giving a name, with no relation to the riddle we were trying to solve. (That is my final minor complaint- You should really have found a way to implement the same riddle, just not using names, so it was clear it was something else :P) Similarly, I thought that "inseparable from birth" was more of a title or a "here rests a great hero" kind of deal (Although that wasn't bad, I think it was clever intentional play), and that us having to find another half meant that eventually we'd stumble on a different location to get it, not find it somewhere here.(And this was just me making assumptions)

So this combination of effects, while I still think were reasonable to think at think at the time, have combined to make me look like an idiot that was completely wrong. :roll: In each case, with the previous hint many pages ago you managed to track down, I am now convinced as well.

So I'll have Burned go collect the reward... But the glory for actually solving it is yours. ;)

In my eyes, you can have the amulet if it turns out to have some special power or anything else than being just a glorified quest item. I mean, unless it's excessively shiny, and Burned's kleptomania kicks in... :shifty:

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Synch
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Synch » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:55 am

Yeah I only found that previous reference pages and pages ago when going back trying to read what my character had done before I came along.

And I'm gonna be frustrated if that bonfire/brazier is just a normal bonfire, its in such a weird place right under the puzzle! but its looking like that's the case, the puzzle was merely to lead us to the right statue for the amulet piece.

The glory isn't mine, it is Maglubiyet's.... :paranoia:
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:57 am

Well, if he wants the amulet, he can come down and get it.

We just want him to sucker punch the demon first.

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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:25 am

So what do we want to do next, guys? Turn back and prepare to continue down the main path? Or go in a battle with the ghost further down the tunnel that's probably gonna drain most of our MP/HP?

Also do we REALLY want Burned to pick up the obviously cursed crown..?

Because, I guess I will, but I kinda already have Mr. Rock and stuff...

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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Theis2 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:51 am

I want burned to drink of the fountain! It's not like I'm very curious just what Thinks have planned with that fountain :paranoia:
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Dlover » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:22 pm

While I'm all for Burned being a guinea pig, I think the crown should just be avoided.
My game:
Hunters of Letrua; Character list
Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

My characters:
Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Synch » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:58 pm

I think the crown is necessary for the pedestals outside. it is one of the symbols, after all.
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:56 pm

I think in this particular instance, I too think it's more likely there is just another crown somewhere than that the crown we want is actually the "definitely not cursed crown"TM one. :roll:

But, hey, what's the worst that can happen, right? The curse seemed to be ego based anyways, so it'll probably be cancelled out by Burned's own ego anyways. He'll be like "This crown makes me feel like the greatest goblin alive, but then again I already knew that." :roll:

(Note: It is possible I enter a berserk state in which case you guys will need to temporarily knock me out. I apologize in advance if Mr. Rock does not hold back because he's jealous.)

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Synch
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Synch » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:21 am

Can we use any magic to do some sort of curse check? Like a scroll of identity type magic?
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M0rtimer
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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:28 am

Maybe, maybe not, but we can also use the magical method of "common sense" to derive whether or not something might be cursed.

I figure "Takes two updates just to muster the will to put the crown back down again" as "Probably definitely cursed".

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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by Dlover » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:39 am

That first turn wasn't even resisting its curse, that was just normal fashion sense. :P
My game:
Hunters of Letrua; Character list
Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

My characters:
Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:45 am

Hey, I guess this was a long time coming. I mean, Burned did say that they should leave that crown alone so he could wear it instead, but then he obviously got distracted. :roll:

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Re: Lair of the Mountain King: OOC Thread

Post by M0rtimer » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:37 am

I am really tempted to put on the crown just to see what happens... But if even Mr. Rock thinks it's a bad idea, it's probably a bad idea.

Luckily there is another idea that will definitely not end in disaster... :roll:

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