Trinity Isles OOC

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:57 am

I'm not trying to rewire it, I'm trying to go for thier weakpoints to weaken/disrupt or maybe hack them. Weak points would be easier in battle.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Dusk9 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:11 am

Yeah, but that's basically a Struggle attack. Targetting weak points is what Accuracy is for. You could argue that high Tech Edu would give you a bonus to finding them, but then you'd have to apply the same thing to Poke Edu for Pokemon.

It just seems pointless to make a new attack type when we've already got Combat Maneuvers for that :shrug:

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:57 am

Poke edu, occult edu etc actually all offer their own version of aiding in pokemon interaction of the correct sort, to an extent ... And admittedly, with the use of edges to actually unlock them(pokepsychologist, tag scribe).

Thing is, I feel like there should be some way tech edu can interact with bots- It only make sense. And there is in some capacity if I gave access to the do porygon dream of mareep book, in the form of emp grenades and such... Thing is, I don't, since 90% of everything in there I consider too advanced to be applicable in this setting, up to cutting out some of the applications of the engineer class, too.

I mostly didn't want to say "Sorry there's nothing in the raw about how that would apply" when simultaneously, by extension of blocking the book of usage, I mean not really if someone really wanted to go into engineer or jailbreaker that'd probably be possible but there'd be some heavy homerules attached to them blocking any real means to get additional ways to deal with them... Would it have meant some of you guys would actually have ways to deal with it? Probably not, but the possibility can't be dismissed.

Given that on retrospection, any application of skill damage is applied to a feat, and usually costs AP or something similar too... Yeah, gonna have to say it'd have to be at least a homebrew edge. I'll allow what Dusk proposed as a compromise, though.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:59 am

up to cutting out some of the applications of the engineer class, too
I mean not really if someone really wanted to go into engineer or jailbreaker that'd probably be possible but there'd be some heavy homerules attached to them
Which would be what exacly and shouldn't this affect Tex? If anything he seems to got a lot more boon out of it, seeing he can have about double amount of bots than pokemon active at the very least. If it's too advanced for us to take then it should be the same with Tex.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:24 pm

Tex being able to control more than the regular is just blatant boss mechanics outside of regular class scope. Besides, it's not him controlling them- He's currently asleep...

Never really "written down" what is/is not allowed and simply have taken what seemed sensible for the setting. A lot of it is actually fine, but...

Engineer: Pokebots can only use default or reinforced steel as building material.
-Sympathetic drives are still allowed, but are fluffed to be relevant upgrades such as a flamethrower etc rather than the singular parts. Dubious dics upgrade not allowed. (the alternative effect, at least)
-Repair nanites are not allowed

Jailbreaker: I'm pretty sure I actually already gave Drake a lock case somewhat coming from this class, but it's actually mostly fine. I'm a bit iffy on some of the cases and don't think they'd realistically exist in the setting's current tech level, but the only one I'd really ban is the storage case. (Which you guys got regardless thanks to p much divine intervention)

Upgrader: None of this is possible in the setting. Only exception is embedded weaponry for pokebots.

Glitch bender: HAA HAA HAA.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:44 pm

How does it react to bots controlled by a porygon?

So is that a yes to glitch bender? Or no? Cause I may bring Null back if Haley dies.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:08 pm

How does what react to being controlled by a porygon?

And it is possible to be a glitch bender, but to "contract" it would require... Very specific circumstances.

Also Dusk, past actions be dismissed, I think I've (we've?) misunderstood how exactly "one with the winds" functions?
Effect: You summon a windy breeze that follows you
around. Your sense of touch is extended through this
wind, and you can guide it by thought, using it to perceive
the shape and texture of objects as long as the wind
can reach, even through very small cracks and holes.
The range of this effect is equal to your Acrobatics Rank
plus Perception Rank in meters.
How I've been ruling it previously (and how I got the impression it worked from you) is that it's a general surrounding "aura" in which you become aware of things... But I think it's actually supposed to be more along the lines of "Mage hand" from D&D, in that you can use it to move around including to spots you can't usually see but still consecutively get an idea about by "feeling it". You could probably do what your main intent had been so far without issue, but the biggest difference would be that because it's not really an "aura" she wouldn't automatically notice some stuff. She wouldn't have noticed the gap in those floor tiles, for example, unless he had intently "pushed" against them with her wind powers... Or what do you think?

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:17 pm

The whole disabling thing. If we used dusks thing and target a bot that is controlled by a porygon, what would happen?

It says even through small cracks or holes, so cracks would count as that. Unless it's air sealed. It's more feel based meaning she won't see what's happening, but she can feel what is around...kind more blind?

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:27 pm

Yeah, but my point is that it's not an "everywhere" presence, it's something that needs to be guided. If she doesn't notice the cracks, she'd need to either be lucky, or intentionally test them... Which to be fair makes it a bad example in this particular instance, since Izzy would be "rolling around" the wind against the walls and such to try and find secrets and see what's down corridors before even going down them... A better example would be to say that, for instance, if someone were to sneak up on her while she's using her wind sense to scout ahead, she wouldn't automatically notice because she's using her wind sense to focus ahead of her, not behind her.

At least, that's the impression I've gotten from it upon a closer reread.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Synch » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:44 pm

M0rtimer wrote: Synch, what you said is correct, but it should be noted that the hoppip/jufplum bots are also all levitating...
Yeah, I forgot about that. :paranoia:
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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:35 pm

Arch Lich Burns wrote:The whole disabling thing (if we use it). If we used dusks thing and target a bot that is controlled by a porygon, what would happen?
You didn't answer this. Also I think there is an anti hacking edge/feature in pory, but not really a way to hack it seems. It's kind of annoying actually. They fleshed out the class but not really interactions with the bots except what is super effective against them.

Edit: I just realized that Zorua's have a low power, like 1 or 2 but Numa easily carried the skiddo easily, which is 68.3 lbs. But yet genesect which has power 7-8 can't carry Haley? Sorry hust noticed thst. :lol:

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Dlover » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:28 am

a) Numa may be SUPA STRONK.
b) Numa was dragging it, not 'easily carrying' it.
c) Haley's weight isn't well documented. I'd thought it was listed in kg, which would've put Haley well into Genesect's Heavy Lifting, which makes stealth difficult.
My game:
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Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

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Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:26 am

Point 2: that would easily been noticed by the ground, it would have obvious drsg marks and not fit with her carring it.
Oooh. I thought of something. What happens if a ghost attempts to possess a sleeping or unconcious target?

Edit: nevermind. Possession sucks so hardcore it's move even worth trying.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:45 am

Yeah, I forgot about that. :paranoia:
So... You're not changing your action? :roll:
You didn't answer this.
Sorry, must have somehow missed it. It won't make a difference whether the bot is being "piloted" by an porygon or not- The bot hit is the one affected.
I just realized that Zorua's have a low power, like 1 or 2 but Numa easily carried the skiddo easily, which is 68.3 lbs. But yet genesect which has power 7-8 can't carry Haley? Sorry hust noticed thst. :lol:
Like Dlover said, it was explicitly described as being dragged, not carried. :roll:

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Synch » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:15 am

M0rtimer wrote:
Yeah, I forgot about that. :paranoia:
So... You're not changing your action? :roll:
I've edited it. Sorry, got swamped at work.
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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:00 am

Sorry, must have somehow missed it. It won't make a difference whether the bot is being "piloted" by an porygon or not- The bot hit is the one affected.
Okaaaaaaaay, but how does that work out? If the bot is blinded, how does the pokemon see? If slowed, how does the pokemon move? If not vulernable, how does attacks affect it?

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:45 am

While a pokemon is "piloting" a pokebot, it's essentially doing everything through it. If it remains in it, it will effectively be blinded/whatever for that turn, too.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Dusk9 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:00 am

M0rtimer wrote:Also Dusk, past actions be dismissed, I think I've (we've?) misunderstood how exactly "one with the winds" functions?

How I've been ruling it previously (and how I got the impression it worked from you) is that it's a general surrounding "aura" in which you become aware of things... But I think it's actually supposed to be more along the lines of "Mage hand" from D&D, in that you can use it to move around including to spots you can't usually see but still consecutively get an idea about by "feeling it". You could probably do what your main intent had been so far without issue, but the biggest difference would be that because it's not really an "aura" she wouldn't automatically notice some stuff. She wouldn't have noticed the gap in those floor tiles, for example, unless he had intently "pushed" against them with her wind powers... Or what do you think?
I've basically been imagining it as a kind of....directed echolocation? Only using wind instead of sound. So when she "looks" at an area she basically gets a good general idea of the layout (i.e. where the walls are, if there's any big obstacles, etc), but if she focuses harder then she picks up on the little details (like those cracks).

For the maze, she's been moving pretty slowly and thoroughly (when she's been alone, at least). So it makes sense that she'd notice smaller details. In a more high-octane situation, like a battle, then it's pretty much a given that she'll only be able to pick up on the big things. Unless she happens to focus on a specific spot, of course. Basically it's just another sense, which means Perception still plays a big part in it. Even people with perfect eyesight are gonna miss things if they aren't Perceptive enough, and the same applies here.

(Also I think the only thing this really "changes" is what happened in the reaper room, with the thing creeping up on her. But we could easily say she just got lucky and happened to scan behind her, or heard the footsteps coming, or something like that.)

-----------------------------------

Regarding the Pokemon-controlled Pokebot, why not just base the DC off the Porygon's Focus? Seems pretty straightforward to me :P

Actually, another idea I had for the Manoeuvre was to use Complexity x2 instead of Focus for the DC. So, assuming max complexity, a Small/Medium/Large bot would have a DC of 12/16/20 (16/20/24 if upgraded by an Engineer).
Pros: More sensible progression (Disrupting a Bulbasaur bot is naturally gonna be easier than Disrupting a tank-sized Rhydon); easier for Mort, since he's prob tracking Complexity already and doesn't need to make a Focus skill for every new bot; more consistent - a Novice or Adept Focus bot isn't going to get lucky and roll max difficulty on what should be a relatively easy check.
Cons: It's maybe a bit too hard? An Adept would only have a 33% chance of Disrupting an Small Engineered bot. While a Master would have only a 27% chance against an Large Engineered bot. In this case the DC could be dropped to x1.5 for 9/12/15 (12/15/18), but then that swings the other way of being too easy?

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:15 am

Yeah, seems like you already got a good idea similar to how I am now thinking it functions, then- Just me who was wrong. :roll:

Using the porygon's focus is probably a no brainer, but doesn't apply to the whole lot. I do like the suggestion to incorporate their complexity in there. Maybe "total used complexity" X 2? Most of the bots used in this battle aren't even actually fully "kitted out".

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Dusk9 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:28 am

Well, it is pretty much an "aura" as long as Izzy is moving slowly and paying attention. She can technically "look" behind herself without turning around, after all. The differences only really apply in battles or chase scenes, and neither of those have come up yet.

-----------------------------------

Yeah, I was thinking it would be based on their actual Complexity. I just used max Complexity for the theorycrafting to get a good idea of the limits.

Another downside would be that a Porygon-controlled bot wouldn't add any difficulty to the check. Not unless you said Pokemon possession added an effective +2 to Complexity for the purposes of determining the DC (and in that case I'd feel we were making it a bit overly complicated).

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Dlover » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:41 am

Does the porygon's presence actually change the bot? Because if it doesn't, then there's nothing changing the complexity. Especially if the porygon isn't directly affected, so it can just sit in a bot to boost its resistance then jump to another one, none the worse for wear.
My game:
Hunters of Letrua; Character list
Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

My characters:
Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Dusk9 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:58 am

The actual Complexity wouldn't change, just the DC of the Disrupt check. Since you'd figure that a Pokebot controlled by a Wired Pokemon would be better at resisting that kind of attack.

But yeah, the more I think about it the less I like the idea. Too much complexity ( :roll: ). Just basing it off Complexity alone should be fine.

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:10 am

Well, it is pretty much an "aura" as long as Izzy is moving slowly and paying attention. She can technically "look" behind herself without turning around, after all. The differences only really apply in battles or chase scenes, and neither of those have come up yet.
I mean, that part wholly depends on how "fast" and how "big" the effect is, which I admit is not exactly super defined... But I think a good guideline would be to say that if you're walking on a regular pace in a regular area, you could get a general idea of your surroundings, but no details. In this maze, though, where you're moving slower both because it's dark and both because you're actually intent on examining stuff, yeah, it might just as well be an "aura". Barring asking oneself the question if they would be using their power to go back to corridors they previously explored. And likewise, running would only be able to give one a very vague idea if focusing on something (Which in such a particular instance would probably be along the lines of "is it behind me")
Does the porygon's presence actually change the bot? Because if it doesn't, then there's nothing changing the complexity. Especially if the porygon isn't directly affected, so it can just sit in a bot to boost its resistance then jump to another one, none the worse for wear.
Well, after thinking about it some more, my thought process basically became: "Well, getting two of the robots moves and an ability would make sense if it was a rotom and actually "possessing" the robot in appliance mode, and hence just taking damage itself, but it's not... So why not reverse the situation?"- So basically, a pokebot remains using it's own stats and moves, but in addition also gets some moves from it's porygon host... It'd probably be the same as would be for a rotom, two moves and one ability, in a regular scenario, but again I might apply boss mechanics bullshittery. I mean- A completely legit homebrew poke-edge. :shifty:

And yeah, we'll just stick with the pokebot's "used complexity". Bots that can accept a wired pokemon need the compability core anyways, so they're naturally higher on the required check, usually. :roll:

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:17 am

It'd probably be the same as would be for a rotom, two moves and one ability, in a regular scenario, but again I might apply boss mechanics bullshittery. I mean- A completely legit homebrew poke-edge. :shifty:
Yer applying enough of that as it is!

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Re: Trinity Isles OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:39 am

We've been over this before, Burns- I might be a bit heavy-handed in my use of non-RAW applications from time to time, but I make sure to keep it fair enough to still be an acceptable challenge.

Haha just joking I am totally going to kill all of you and making every enemy OP is the best way to do that.

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