Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Home to all current Forum Games.
User avatar
BadgeAddict
Saves-A-Hyena
Posts: 9145
Location: Ohio

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by BadgeAddict » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:21 pm

I understand, and more power to you, though personally, I would rather note tweaks that i like by themselves and then allow Aegis to come up with whatever he wants for the combination of it all.....(which we all know he will do anyways)

That being said, to mention "single" tweaks that I like...I'm a big fan of habitat, as it will protect the tribe for 2 years.

User avatar
kida
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1166

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by kida » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:46 pm

Habitat is nice but if it only helpful the first 2 years (out of planned 30), it seems like a waste of tweak. you should also keep in mind that the game usually doesn't start with enemies on the border (for example last game, we had a "civil war" at start and didn't have that much problems from outside for the first years).

Aegis - what do you say of changing the vote so instead of having a week to vote on 7 tweaks, we'll have 7 days of voting for 1 tweak each day). That way we can vote based on the winners from the day before (and possibly avoid dumb combination).

User avatar
BadgeAddict
Saves-A-Hyena
Posts: 9145
Location: Ohio

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by BadgeAddict » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:02 pm

+1 ^, I like this idea....this should also stop all the bullshit with changing your votes...and the typical confusion that comes from that. Great idea Kida.

Davecom3
Chronically Blathering
Posts: 1522
Location: Gainesville, Florida

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by Davecom3 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:11 pm

Since we're voting the Top 10 Tweaks, that would be 10 days, not 7, and potentially more if people choose selections that give us more Tweaks.

User avatar
Aegis J Hyena
Game Master
Posts: 4293

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:18 pm

The idea is sound, but it also seems a bit overcomplicated. Also, what Davecom3 said. It'd be easier for a one-shot launch rather than 1/day.

That's what -this- thread is for, so people can talk Tweaks out, maybe say what they're voting for, the rationale. I suppose I could "open entries" and leave the entire MONTH for people to vote on and swap votes around and such if you wanted me to. Would you rather have the entire month to vote, so to speak?

I already know what I'm (likely) voting for, so I'll mention it. Probably voting Dwarves, and doing a very large amount of bodily Tweaks (Claws, Horns, Hooves, Prehensile Tail, among others...). I might change my ideas depending on what other people's ideas are.
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Capricornian/

It's Always Something. No, don't give me that look. It's Always Something.

User avatar
BadgeAddict
Saves-A-Hyena
Posts: 9145
Location: Ohio

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by BadgeAddict » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:27 pm

How about this then. We vote on one tweak a day for 10 days = 10 Tweaks chosen....Then, if any extra tweaks are gained, we continue on a 1/day schedule until all extra points are used. However, the second "round" will not gain extra tweaks if those are voted on.

User avatar
kida
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1166

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by kida » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:58 pm

For race I like "The Simple Celled"
especially if we can have tweaks like "Low Magic" or "Dead magic Zone" to offset their weakness.

but if we vote to all the tweaks in one round I'll probably change my vote according to where the votes go.

User avatar
Aegis J Hyena
Game Master
Posts: 4293

Re: Civilization 6: Comin... July 5th

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:01 pm

Don't hold your breath, but I'll think about it. I really prefer one vote for all the tweaks at once. 10+ days would be just too long in my opinion. I'd rather open entries for a week, give the forum time to haggle it out and when I close entries 7 days later, that's that... If people want to do convincing that X Tweak is Best Tweak... this is the thread for it.
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Capricornian/

It's Always Something. No, don't give me that look. It's Always Something.

Davecom3
Chronically Blathering
Posts: 1522
Location: Gainesville, Florida

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by Davecom3 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:07 pm

Given the odds, I think that Tolerant is extremely valuable for its cost. Odds are good that, without it, we're going to wind up with at least 2 races that are at odds with one another, probably more. If this occurs, we're inevitably going to have a great deal of social unrest. Being one of the only people last game to attempt to manage the unrest before it turned to genocide, this doesn't offer me much hope we'll manage to get things under control until at least one of our major races dies out this game. Thus, taking the Tweak is good for at least that much.

Then, I am one of those people that like to go through dungeons, but we were relatively prevented from doing that as much as I'd have liked last game due to constant clashes with ourselves and other civilizations. With all civilizations starting at least Neutral to us, more actions should be able to be spent on dungeons and other parts of our society, rather than being constantly at war with one group or another.

Further, even if we don't take Monster Zoo, there is a random chance it occurs anyway, causing more devastation to our civilization than even with 4 opposing main races. I imagine there are likely going to be people interested in playing races all across the board, so if we don't put Tolerant in place to handle this risk, we set ourselves up for Murphy's Law to take our civilization out quickly.

Given that Tolerant only costs one Tweak, it's a very good Tweak for its cost.

User avatar
kida
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1166

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by kida » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:47 pm

I like tolerant but maybe leave it to round 2 when we know the actual races and see if we actually need it

User avatar
NewOneAround
Likes to Contribute
Posts: 225
Location: Mannheim, Germany

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by NewOneAround » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:50 pm

Well I dont see why soicial unrest and racial infighting are bad. It seems like a lot of FUN.^^ But I agree its more interesting to let the Civ grow and watch Aegis take out some cranky stuff to make us problems, than making them ourself.

And yes randoming Monster Zoo would most likely be a complete wipe without Tolerant. Personaly I would go for Skaven, Gnoll or Kobold because I like these races and neither of them is social adept.

I did not have the chance to see the last Civ starting. You can change you vote after someone has posted afer you? Seems not very ... democratic. Well at least we can do some damage control then.

[someone in for Resource Poor-, Toxic, Dead Magic Zone, Spiritually Sealed, Technologically Inept Trolls?]
GM for a Kobold Mine

Cutting, building and assembling inside of Castle Heterodyne [Salpicon]
Being on hold while working under the D'Jinn [Zeun]
Beeing a lost Goblin Slave (a.k.a. Mineling) in a godforsaken Hole [Complains]
Full of excitement for the rise of a new Civilisation

User avatar
Aegis J Hyena
Game Master
Posts: 4293

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:03 pm

Well, I've got some ideas about Monster Zoo. Like if Ravine was taken for an environment tweak, you guys could have the opposition forces on either side, linking the two "village halves" over a ravine. This means archery would be effective, but I might have something suspended over a ravine that would spell a wipe if both sides didn't defend it or something... If the Zoo comes up I'll try to keep violence to a minimum at the start.

Hmmm... Glacial Lava Layer Forest...

The old Civilization's still up, NewOneAround, there should be a link to it in my signature. But yeah, people can change their votes if they become swayed, right up until I write the next post, whenever it is.

I haven't decided whether I'm rolling the 3 at random after the second vote or the first one... probably the first one, so you guys know what you're up against.
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Capricornian/

It's Always Something. No, don't give me that look. It's Always Something.

User avatar
kida
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1166

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by kida » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:06 pm

To make it "democratic" you need some way of concealing the votes.
If you'll look at the prev civ thread, you'll see there was a voting war for a few days until Aegis decided to end it.

User avatar
Aegis J Hyena
Game Master
Posts: 4293

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:50 pm

I entertained the idea of "email me your votes" for this one. Decided against it. I'll probably make a separate thread for the race/tweak voting (this way a vote war won't pollute the opening statements of the Civ), then ANOTHER thread for the official run.

I'm actually more interested in seeing what Environments people pick as Tweaks. Lava Layer + Habitat + Ravine = living on a "vein of the world" is one I came up with while going to the local shop to grab a couple of (nearly $2 a bottle!) half-liter Mountain Dew bottles.
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Capricornian/

It's Always Something. No, don't give me that look. It's Always Something.

User avatar
madmartin26
Indulges in Conversation
Posts: 895

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by madmartin26 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:25 pm

Yeah, i agree that tolerant is a very important tweak to choose. Not only does it stop possible enemies from infighting, but for the people who want to choose one of the often evil races (Drow, Skaven, etc.) but not play them as especially evil, it provides a very good reason for them to be moderate and try to get along with the other races (namely, this group is just more tolerant of other races and willing to cooperate to keep the peace).

User avatar
Aegis J Hyena
Game Master
Posts: 4293

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:58 pm

I only added Tolerant because I wanted a lot of opposites. Something to counter Warrior or Violent or something.

A lot of the Tweaks lose punch if Forever Alone gets chosen; anything dealing with other civilizations wouldn't kick in.

Forever Alone and Monster Zoo would -certainly- be a challenge...
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Capricornian/

It's Always Something. No, don't give me that look. It's Always Something.

User avatar
ChuckDaRighteous
Floods your Ears
Posts: 2298

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by ChuckDaRighteous » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:36 pm

I don't think tolerant is necessary unless our races or other tweaks will cause undue strife.

I also think elemental shift + elemental balance might be interesting though challenging.

Another idea is to use elemental shift in a specific elemental environment (like aquatic) and we can dominate the rival element. Good luck to fire elementals trying to take our water elemental on underwater.
Righteous OneVengeful One in Goblin Adventurer's League
Righteous Charger in Capture the flag
Tim/Tuane in Potential
GMing Gal Quest 10

User avatar
Aegis J Hyena
Game Master
Posts: 4293

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:04 pm

ChuckDaRighteous wrote:I don't think tolerant is necessary unless our races or other tweaks will cause undue strife.

I also think elemental shift + elemental balance might be interesting though challenging.

Another idea is to use elemental shift in a specific elemental environment (like aquatic) and we can dominate the rival element. Good luck to fire elementals trying to take our water elemental on underwater.
Then they just have something stronger than you superheat all the water to steam. :P I'm kidding of course. That WOULD be an interesting situation.
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Capricornian/

It's Always Something. No, don't give me that look. It's Always Something.

User avatar
ChuckDaRighteous
Floods your Ears
Posts: 2298

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by ChuckDaRighteous » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:45 pm

If only I could believe you were kidding.

animal rider's + chocobo = dire chocobos!

also will personal tweaks apply to animal mounts? Horned everything!
Righteous OneVengeful One in Goblin Adventurer's League
Righteous Charger in Capture the flag
Tim/Tuane in Potential
GMing Gal Quest 10

User avatar
Aegis J Hyena
Game Master
Posts: 4293

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:16 pm

Personal Tweaks will not filter to animals. But yeah, Animal Riders + Calvary + Chocobo could be fun :)
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Capricornian/

It's Always Something. No, don't give me that look. It's Always Something.

User avatar
BadgeAddict
Saves-A-Hyena
Posts: 9145
Location: Ohio

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by BadgeAddict » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:57 am

Why not make one of those voting things at the top of the screen. Of course, your list would be insanely long, but I'm sure you could figure out a way to shorten it.

Then votes would be both locked (per person) and anonymous.

The only reason (or rather the major reason) that i continue to whine (yes, i'll call out my own behavior) about this, is that it's really annoying, when people change their votes to the sway of the masses...

User avatar
kida
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1166

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by kida » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:43 am

I think anonymous is not the issue, the issue is that you can see what other people voted (which you can still see with the voting tool).

User avatar
BadgeAddict
Saves-A-Hyena
Posts: 9145
Location: Ohio

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by BadgeAddict » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:46 am

Aegis,

If you think secret voting using the private messages is too messy or too much work for you, I will happily volunteer to be the one to sort through 50+ emails and assemble a list of who voted for what.

User avatar
ChuckDaRighteous
Floods your Ears
Posts: 2298

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by ChuckDaRighteous » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:04 am

I think secret voting could be a very bad thing in this respect. If for some reason, we ended up with a couple powerful magic races and dead magic zone, it would be detrimental and make the whole experience a rather poor one. There are plenty of bad combinations, and I think changing to avoid them is a good idea.
Righteous OneVengeful One in Goblin Adventurer's League
Righteous Charger in Capture the flag
Tim/Tuane in Potential
GMing Gal Quest 10

User avatar
BadgeAddict
Saves-A-Hyena
Posts: 9145
Location: Ohio

Re: Civilization 6: Argue Your Tweaks

Post by BadgeAddict » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:25 am

on the other hand, that would be the glory of secret voting...we don't know what we'll get...which would be so much more fun.

I like surprises.

one more idea for voting, similar to what kida mentioned but with a small variation.

voting opens for 7 days to vote on a total of 10 items.

As each day passes, the current top voted on tweak becomes locked in and will no longer be able to be changed. You can still change your votes for other things as the week passes, but you will be unable to remove your vote from the thing that won.

At the end of the week, the final top 3 things are selected.

Any extra tweaks gained, will be used the 2nd round as normal.
Last edited by BadgeAddict on Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

Post Reply