Goblins gaydar poll

[RocketScientist]

And yet you're not a woman, but you're speaking for women. I find that problematic as regards your argument.

[Kore]

And yet you're not a woman, but you're speaking for women. I find that problematic as regards your argument.

Many here are not goblins or snakepeople or other monsters yet speak for them and claim they aren't really evil.

Many people have opinions about cats compared to dogs and "speak for them" despite never having been either a cat or a dog.

As for women, they are not all alike. Some for example are sissy types who shave their beards and legs, yuck!


Edit/update: Hello Korefans, I don't want all females out there to feel too bad if you do shave... no one is perfect, we should all have tolerance for differences in others. So for example guys, if a female might shave once in a while... but if she is strong and good at sharpening axes, brewing beer, etc don't count her out. Take her on a date killing monsters, get to know her better, she could still make a good wife.

[RocketScientist]

Many here are not goblins or snakepeople or other monsters yet speak for them and claim they aren't really evil.

Many people have opinions about cats compared to dogs and "speak for them" despite never having been either a cat or a dog.

Indeed. But you can't really do that while agreeing with Rich Burlew's stance on not having gay characters because he is not gay. If you can only write what you've personally experienced, then there goes this whole comic. And Order of the Stick. And several entire genres of fiction, of which I happen to be fond.

[vonpenguin]

Many here are not goblins or snakepeople or other monsters yet speak for them and claim they aren't really evil.

Many people have opinions about cats compared to dogs and "speak for them" despite never having been either a cat or a dog.

Indeed. But you can't really do that while agreeing with Rich Burlew's stance on not having gay characters because he is not gay. If you can only write what you've personally experienced, then there goes this whole comic. And Order of the Stick. And several entire genres of fiction, of which I happen to be fond.

Agreed, and while certain groups clearly have it much, much worse than others everyone has faced unfounded discrimination at one point or another. Heck, this is a forum for a comic about DnD, I'd bet at least half of us where discriminated against as "nerds" by anti-intellectuals in school. Thus while a straight white male can't write from first hand experience on the hardships of being a gay black woman I'm sure if he extrapolated from the times people took an instant dislike of him he'd fall in the ballpark.

Sorry if that sounds like I'm belittling people's hardships, not my intent. I'm just saying everyone is hated for an invalid reason by someone else, yes even the jerks that deserve to be hated for a million valid reasons and that we are not as different as people try to suggest when they claim "you don't know how X group thinks!".

[BootToTheHead]

I think that it's ok, as long as the author is treating his or her subject matter with respect. It's obviously impossible for a (as you said) straight white male to truly understand what life is like for a gay black woman.
I don't know what answer is correct, but I don't think that authors should necessary limit themselves because they are worried about offending someone.
A male can never truly understand what life is like for a female, and vice versa. Same for sexualities and ethnicities understanding eachother fully. If the author treats the unknown with respect and as much knowledge as they are capable of reasonably obtaining, then I think it's ok. Otherwise, straight white males can only have straight white male (human) characters. And that's no fun at all. I think that's playing it too safe. Actually, that would probably cause even more hate...

[vonpenguin]

Honestly, I don't believe that you can't understand being something else, Gender differences are mostly bull, while there are some physical differences and even some mental ones, male and female are not so different that understanding the other is a "leap", if it was we wouldn't have transgender people. I did not say that the SWM couldn't understand the GBW, just that he wouldn't have firsthand knowledge and would have to research, interpret, extrapolate, and draw comparisons with his own experience. Authors do need to treat their subject mater with respect but to me that always meant "Just right them as people, superficial traits are superficial" rather than "I've got to be absolutely sure that this representation of a group I don't belong to is perfectly spot on". Down that path leads either stereotypes or Mary Sue token minority characters that are just as bad.

[Sessine]

If X is some subdivision of humanity, ANY statement beginning "All X are..." is going to be FALSE. Sometimes you can say, "Most X are..." or "Many X are..." but most of the time, the closest you can get to the truth is, "Some X are..." The only 100% true statement like that is: "All humans are complicated."

The thing to remember about differences between groups is that yes, they do exist -- which is why stereotypes sort-of work -- but these are vastly overwhelmed by individual differences. In my opinion, any writer worth reading has to make characters believable as individuals. Characters should never be reduced to Official Representatives of... whichever group(s) they happen to belong to. (Yes, this means I dislike most allegory.)

A tale should include as many characters as it needs to unfold, from whatever gender, genetic, ethnic, and cultural backgrounds are required by the story. If you write your story and you put believably complicated people in it, don't worry. You've succeeded.

[RocketScientist]

There's always the option of asking the opinion of someone who is part of a group which you are not. Unless you're writing for goblins or Martians or something, obviously. If you don't know any gay people personally, ask online. Someone is bound to be interested in helping you write a realistic character.

And as a nitpick with Rich, I really think Vaarsuivius is gay. He was conceived as a guy before he was ambiguously gendered, and his mate seems like a guy to me, too. Unless we get conformation that one of them is female, I'm reading a gay couple, whether or not he's writing them with that intention.

[vonpenguin]

And as a nitpick with Rich, I really think Vaarsuivius is gay. He was conceived as a guy before he was ambiguously gendered, and his mate seems like a guy to me, too. Unless we get conformation that one of them is female, I'm reading a gay couple, whether or not he's writing them with that intention.

Can certainly see that. I think V and family were written so that any combination of man woman, man man, or woman woman works.

[Sutremaine]

But for those who knows "Order of the Stick", the author once stated that while being cool with LGBT and having close gay friends, he doesn't know the first thing about them and would not pretend to speak for them by drawing LGBT characters for that reason.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Why pick out LGBT people as the group that he won't write characters? There are many other groups that Rich is not a part of, but are still represented in-comic by characters that aren't extras.

[qTzal]

Where's the "I don't care/It doesn't matter" option?
As an aspie raised on Star Trek I just can't get anywhere near as riled up about someone's private preferences as others.
As 20/20 wise PCP addict once said "Can't we all just get along?"

This just seems like an irrelevant thread to weed out haters.

[vonpenguin]

It also doesn't matter that Complains collects pewter incarnations of various monsters and adventurers or that Forgath likes yumyuk moss but it's still a part of their characters. Wanting to know who these characters are beyond their directly story relevant actions doesn't make you a "hater" unless upon finding out that a character is gay you suddenly start to hate them.

[Gryphonic]

Where's the "I don't care/It doesn't matter" option?
As an aspie raised on Star Trek I just can't get anywhere near as riled up about someone's private preferences as others.

This just seems like an irrelevant thread to weed out haters.

I haven't seen a single post hating on a character suspected of being gay, or on Thunt for having a gay character. The poll was just collecting opinions on who it might be, since THunt's original twitter post practically dared us to try and guess "a side note" he'd never shown in story. Curiosity isn't being 'riled up' about it. Several of us have agreed it doesn't matter as more than trivia right now, since the story is progressing just the way it would have if we'd known this from the earliest arc.
And so

It also doesn't matter that Complains collects pewter incarnations of various monsters and adventurers or that Forgath likes yumyuk moss but it's still a part of their characters. Wanting to know who these characters are beyond their directly story relevant actions doesn't make you a "hater" unless upon finding out that a character is gay you suddenly start to hate them.

[Aliroz The Confused]

The LGBT seem to get all the attention in the subject of non-heterosexual sexualities.

It's like us asexuals don't even exist.

I mean, we're not even included in the LGBT acronym. I'd like for us to have some good representation in media.

-soapbox-

[Kamos]

LGBT started to promote equality and understanding. To stop discrimination and that sort of thing. I suppose there could be work towards more recognition of asexuals as it's still more of an obscure thing and not officially recognized as a sexuality as far as I know. But that aside do asexuals really have much a cause to champion? Or require a champion?

[Aliroz The Confused]

LGBT started to promote equality and understanding. To stop discrimination and that sort of thing. I suppose there could be work towards more recognition of asexuals as it's still more of an obscure thing and not officially recognized as a sexuality as far as I know. But that aside do asexuals really have much a cause to champion? Or require a champion?

No, it's not like we're abused or discriminated against or anything.

There is, however, a tendency in our culture to discount platonic relationships as being less than romantic. Like, "just friends", as if it was somehow limited because it was platonic. As if a fuller relationship would have romance. There's a sense that romantic relationships are more meaningful, or "have gone to the next level", as if platonic relationships were one level, and above that are romantic relationships, in some sort of hierarchy. Also, the entire concept of the "friend-zone".

There's very few media that show platonic relationships as being just as worthwhile, meaningful, strong, powerful, etc, as Romantic arguments, and that they can go just as deep, and incite the same level of emotion; just in different ways.

And in addition, whenever there are deep enough platonic relationships, the shippers are going to make it romantic. Please donÔÇÖt erase aromantic people or characters. There are so very, very few aromantic characters and public figures out there, we need every scrap of representation that we can get. So if a character is explicitly aromantic, or if the story strongly implies that they are, please donÔÇÖt reinterpret them as something else. Please donÔÇÖt take an aromantic character and write a fanfic in which they fall in love. Please donÔÇÖt look for evidence to suggest that their aromanticism is fake, and that theyÔÇÖre actually something else. It would be wrong to reinterpret a homosexual character like that.

[Gryphonic]

LGBT started to promote equality and understanding. To stop discrimination and that sort of thing. I suppose there could be work towards more recognition of asexuals as it's still more of an obscure thing and not officially recognized as a sexuality as far as I know. But that aside do asexuals really have much a cause to champion? Or require a champion?

[ ......]

Shortened just to keep this a shorter looking post.

Not discrimination so much as misrepresented or ignored. What Aliroz said is true, and I'm going to add that visibility is what the asexual community is more about. Imagine if you lived in a time where homosexuality was never talked about. You knew you weren't comfortable in the traditional relationships people encouraged and expected you to have, but you have no idea what else you might be. It feels like there must be something wrong with you, that's you're somehow "broken" for not being like everybody else. That's what AVEN and other organizations are trying to do; be heard so that individuals know they're not alone.

The problem I see in media is partly like Aliroz said, that characters not expressing physical attraction just haven't found the right person, or don't feel as strongly as those that do. I would add to that, that characters in fiction described as asexual are almost unanimously the victims of rape. Being afraid of sex due to trauma is not the same as truly never wanting it in the first place; it reinforces that not wanting a physical relationship is due to something being wrong with you. Would it be acceptable for that to be given as a reason for why someone was homosexual instead of hetero? Definitely not.

Alright guys, this could be an interesting discussion, but I think it belongs in Controversy instead of the forum about the comic itself. The scope of Goblins hasn't included relationships of any sort for the goblins, so we can't be sure any of them are anything unless or until it does. So let's not draw this conversation out here, please.

[kida]

And the winner is

► Show Spoiler

Big Ears

Confirmed by THunt during live broadcast

[SGTdude]

Wow.

Seriously never would have guessed that. I would have figured he just really wasn't interested in sex/romance before I figured he was gay. Color me surprised.

[Aliroz The Confused]

Darn it, that's another character who can't be an ace now.

So few of us in fiction.

[Liesmith]

Damn, I was really hoping it was Complains; his behavior in the comic is antithetical to typical homosexual male stereotypes in fiction. I like seeing characters that break the mold: typically, a sensitive, selfless, genuinely kind adult male character can't just possess those attributes because he's a good person...he has to be either gay, secretly the villain, or Spiderman. All the other male characters are angry/stupid/foolhardy/"played by a girl"/evil. Also, 33% of the currently-living female characters are evil.

I guess it's understandable, though: if I were writing a wholly original story, I'd be most comfortable writing flaws for protagonists who were similar to myself. Even if I don't possess the flaws (for instance, I don't think Thunt routinely goes into rages and smashes up his house, or randomly catcalls women while grocery shopping), I'd be ok with having them make big mistakes or take objectively "wrong" actions. On the other hand, I'm not an author, so maybe I'm not really thinking about it the same way an actual writer would.

Either way, it never came up in the comic, so my mild grumbling isn't really about anything.

[Tofu]

I could so see Saves as being gay ...

[SGTdude]

Here is my question: was there any legitimate (meaning not ambiguous or imagined) evidence in the comic before that foreshadows this?

Because hearing this announcement kinda makes me feel like he went "there will be one gay character, aaaaaaaaaand.........its big ears." My other thought on this is why even mention it? Is the sexual orientation of any character (specifically including GS and Kin here) have any relevance to the story whatsoever? "One of the goblins is gay! Oooooo! Who is it?" Who cares? Is big ears gonna have to kiss some dude to save the world or something?

I am not a running critic of the comic or THunt. Im just frustrated because I just dont understand the announcement that BE is gay on multiple levels. I would love it if someone could explain it to me, but Im thinking this is one of those things we are just going to have to hope gets explained in-comic before the end.

If there is any perceived malice towards the comic or THunt in this post, let me be clear that is your imagination and not my intent.

Thanks



ps-

I like seeing characters that break the mold: typically, a sensitive, selfless, genuinely kind adult male character can't just possess those attributes because he's a good person...he has to be either gay, secretly the villain, or Spiderman.

I both agree with this comment and literally laughed out loud at how it ended

[LAYF]

No, not really...

Originally it was supposed to be mentioned early in the comic (kind of like the MinMax and Forgath kiss, just mentioned and then move one) but the page would ruin the flow of the comic, in Thunts opinion, so he dropped it.
About it ever coming up later, I doubt it, since BE was originally destined to die already at the war camp, I don't think anything li,e that is in the script... but who knows...

The only reason Thunt originally said "some one is gay" was because a lot of people was talking about the general sexuality of the characters (probably after the MM+F kiss) and well... someone was, so why not mention it and see of people could guess..
Then during the last live steam, Thunt decided that since so many had guessed it, and since it would newer really come up (his words) he would confirm it...
He also mentioned he had fun with all the chatter about it...

Hope that answers some questions..
It was a small canon thing that never came to be, but that still is true none the less...

[SGTdude]

Assuming what you said is true: I still don't know why one of the goblins needs to be gay, but I'm satisfied with the answer.