Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

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Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Alarikun » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:25 pm

Huh... that certainly gives perspective on why Tellers and the like are so vague about their prophecies... I like it.

And wooh... the whole party is healed up! We're making progress!

Edit Link: http://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/prophecies
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Krulle » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:31 am

Indeed.
And they're GONNA SAVE THE REALM!

Oh, wait - that wasn't a prophecy.... :(


Also: can someone please remind me what that weapon is Big Ears is holding in the last panel?

http://goblinscomic.com/comic/prophecies wrote:
Spoiler: show
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o) (magic): Senor Vorpal Healass'o!
SFX: Bawumf

Complains of Names: Do you have to yell "Senor Vorpal Healass'o" every time you heal someone?
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): It makes it seem cooler.
Forehead Fumbles: Monster

Minmax: But Kickaxo, why can't you just tell me what that prophecy means? Is it bad? The way you reacted made it seem bad.
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): I told you. Explaining a prophecy hurts. It's like looking directly at the sun.

Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Wait, do Humans hurt their eyes if they look at the sun or is that just a Goblin thing?
Minmax: No, it hurts us too.
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Okay, so even though you can't look at the sun, you can still know where it is, by looking at how the sunlight shines around you. The future is the sun. Prophecies are the sunlight all around us.
Forehead Fumbles: Monster

Forehead Fumbles: ..ter

Minmax: Dude! That was so wise!
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): I know, right?! I totally sounded like a real teller!
Forehead Fumbles: ..nster

Thaco: Okay, so now that we have a teller, we can perform the chiefing ceremony, so the new chief can pray to the Goblin God and ask for help against the demon deity.

Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Yeah, then we save the realm and everyone is happy.
Forehead Fumbles: Monster

Group: Who hoo!
Group: Yay!
Group: We're going to save the realm!
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): No no! That wasn't a prophecy! I was just being positive!
Bottomline: Please support Goblins: Animated! Link in the blog below!
Sketches : panel 1, panel 5
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby GathersIngredients » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:10 am

Krulle wrote:Also: can someone please remind me what that weapon is Big Ears is holding in the last panel?


Iirc, that's the axehole. I vaguely remember that it could be used to lock something within the hole it got in the middle (not sure if it needs to be a living thing, like someone's limb or something).
I'm not sure where I read that, though, as it doesn't seem to be in the mass identify page. Maybe a tweet or something? Or a G:AR card explanation?

Found the page: Link !

Also, almost forgot: Freaking YAY for Ears getting his hand back! Well, most of it, anyway.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Krulle » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:37 am

Thank You, Gathers.


GathersIngredients wrote:Also, almost forgot: Freaking YAY for Ears getting his hand back! Well, most of it, anyway.
Indeed, Yay. But going to add:
@Thunt_Goblins wrote:
@Granite_Grizz wrote:I'm surprised Big Ears still has a left hand.
He's missing most of two fingers. It's pretty gross. >.>


Okay. I'll stop
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby BookWyrm17 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:38 am

Ooh, yes, that was a very good explanation for prophecies.
Now we just need to find a pair of Teller Sunglasses!
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Morgaln » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:09 pm

You know, I feel perfectly fine telling someone what the sun looks like, doesn't hurt my eyes at all. Because I already know what it looks like and don't have to look at it again to describe it.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby WearsHats » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:57 pm

Morgaln wrote:You know, I feel perfectly fine telling someone what the sun looks like, doesn't hurt my eyes at all. Because I already know what it looks like and don't have to look at it again to describe it.


Oh, good. I'll refer you to NASA. You can save them billions! All that time, money, and effort to make satellites and filters and computer models so they can keep track of sunspots and try to predict flares and all sorts of intricate details, but you can just tell them from memory what it looks like!
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Krulle » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:03 pm

[/sarcasm]
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Morgaln » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:40 pm

WearsHats wrote:
Morgaln wrote:You know, I feel perfectly fine telling someone what the sun looks like, doesn't hurt my eyes at all. Because I already know what it looks like and don't have to look at it again to describe it.


Oh, good. I'll refer you to NASA. You can save them billions! All that time, money, and effort to make satellites and filters and computer models so they can keep track of sunspots and try to predict flares and all sorts of intricate details, but you can just tell them from memory what it looks like!


I was talking about the same thing Fumbles was talking about: looking at the sun with bare eyes. Scientific equipment that can detect features invisible to the bare eyes doesn't figure into that.

But the point is, Fumbles analogy falls apart the moment you start thinking about it. The question is, is he unable to explain it in a way that makes sense, or is he lying because he doesn't want to reveal the truth?
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Shardstorm » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:59 pm

The analogy holds fine. Those fine details you can't see because the Sun is a flaming mass of pain if you do so are exactly what he's talking about. He can already see the general shape of the prophesy, just as you can see the general shape of the Sun, but the details can't be discerned. He's not hiding anything. Fumbles isn't like that anyway.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Morgaln » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:27 pm

Shardstorm wrote:The analogy holds fine. Those fine details you can't see because the Sun is a flaming mass of pain if you do so are exactly what he's talking about. He can already see the general shape of the prophesy, just as you can see the general shape of the Sun, but the details can't be discerned. He's not hiding anything. Fumbles isn't like that anyway.


But the sun is not the prophecy, the sun is the future. Fumbles has already seen the future; that's why he told Minmax that he's sorry. He clearly has some idea what the prophecy means, i. e. what the future holds. All he would have to do is tell that to Minmax. He doesn't have to see the future (look into the sun) again for that; all he has to do is to share what he remembers from that glimpse. Which brings me back to my original continuation of the anology: it hurts to look into the sun, but it doesn't hurt me to tell people what I remember from when I last looked into the sun.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Rex » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:15 pm

Like the update, glad we are back to the GAP!

Can anyone remind me how much time has passed in-universe since Chief died?

I want to say it happened when I started an old job, which would be late 2010 IRL , but it feels like a very short time has passed for the Goblins. Just wondering if I am mistaken that they seem to be taking it really well that they are assigning a new Chief shortly after they unexpectedly lost their leader.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Belzera » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:32 pm

Rex wrote:Like the update, glad we are back to the GAP!

Can anyone remind me how much time has passed in-universe since Chief died?

I want to say it happened when I started an old job, which would be late 2010 IRL , but it feels like a very short time has passed for the Goblins. Just wondering if I am mistaken that they seem to be taking it really well that they are assigning a new Chief shortly after they unexpectedly lost their leader.


Well Chief died in middle of a fight agaisnt Kore, the rest of the GAP ran afterwards across a bridge where Minmax and Forgath appeared, they then rushed to the dungeon 'exit' and opened it up while Forgath held off Kore. I'd say its only been a few hours at most
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby WearsHats » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:18 pm

The sun is the future. And he can't look directly at it. But his magic, much like scientific instruments, allows him to see more of it than people just using their naked eyes. He can get glimpses and random details, but trying to look for more information is like focusing your eyes on the sun. It hurts, and you'll just burn out your vision trying.

Makes sense to me.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Rex » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:34 pm

Belzera wrote:
Well Chief died in middle of a fight agaisnt Kore, the rest of the GAP ran afterwards across a bridge where Minmax and Forgath appeared, they then rushed to the dungeon 'exit' and opened it up while Forgath held off Kore. I'd say its only been a few hours at most



Ah , I thought for some reason they had rested a bit, but that doesn’t make sense with Kore hot on their heels. If it’s been only a few hours, they have been through a lot! Just kinda makes me sad that they are ready to go into the chiefing ceremony without mentioning Chief at all. He was always my favorite of the GAP.

Hopefully he gets mentioned in the next one!
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Xavier78 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:09 pm

WearsHats wrote:The sun is the future. And he can't look directly at it. But his magic, much like scientific instruments, allows him to see more of it than people just using their naked eyes. He can get glimpses and random details, but trying to look for more information is like focusing your eyes on the sun. It hurts, and you'll just burn out your vision trying.

Makes sense to me.


He wouldn't have said sorry if he didn't see exactly what happened, so no, it doesn't make sense. There is literally nothing stopping him from saying exactly what he already clearly seen.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby BuildsLegos » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:23 pm

Rex wrote:Like the update, glad we are back to the GAP!

Can anyone remind me how much time has passed in-universe since Chief died?

I want to say it happened when I started an old job, which would be late 2010 IRL , but it feels like a very short time has passed for the Goblins. Just wondering if I am mistaken that they seem to be taking it really well that they are assigning a new Chief shortly after they unexpectedly lost their leader.
Chief died at dusk of the previous day; once inside the Dragon's Maw, they slept once in the Yumyuk Cavern and proceeded upon waking to several encounters with so little down-time in between that I'd be shocked if it's already long into afternoon.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby AXIS » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:43 pm

Xavier78 wrote:
WearsHats wrote:The sun is the future. And he can't look directly at it. But his magic, much like scientific instruments, allows him to see more of it than people just using their naked eyes. He can get glimpses and random details, but trying to look for more information is like focusing your eyes on the sun. It hurts, and you'll just burn out your vision trying.

Makes sense to me.


He wouldn't have said sorry if he didn't see exactly what happened, so no, it doesn't make sense. There is literally nothing stopping him from saying exactly what he already clearly seen.


Forget his bullshit analogy.

He said explaining prophecy hurts.

That's the part to focus on. The rest is just fluff and author distraction

It hurts to verbalise specifics of prophecy




Now Fumbles has been through a lot pain wise in the past. There's probably a character arc here in how he is going to use that strength to push through that pain to something useful

Just not yet, but my money on that happening at the proper plot moment
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby BuildsLegos » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:23 pm

Rex wrote:
Belzera wrote:
Well Chief died in middle of a fight agaisnt Kore, the rest of the GAP ran afterwards across a bridge where Minmax and Forgath appeared, they then rushed to the dungeon 'exit' and opened it up while Forgath held off Kore. I'd say its only been a few hours at most



Ah , I thought for some reason they had rested a bit, but that doesn’t make sense with Kore hot on their heels. If it’s been only a few hours, they have been through a lot! Just kinda makes me sad that they are ready to go into the chiefing ceremony without mentioning Chief at all. He was always my favorite of the GAP.

Hopefully he gets mentioned in the next one!
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby GathersIngredients » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:15 pm

Xavier78 wrote:He wouldn't have said sorry if he didn't see exactly what happened, so no, it doesn't make sense. There is literally nothing stopping him from saying exactly what he already clearly seen.


Maybe he just saw MinMax crying and/or in pain (physical or otherwise), but not why. :shrug:

Plus he said the explaining hurts. So I'm guessing he can't and/or won't do it without (great) need, if at all.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby WearsHats » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 am

Maybe he didn't see it clearly. Maybe he just saw Minmax brokenhearted, but doesn't know the details. Enough to know there's great tragedy ahead, but not the specifics. We also don't know how much he can remember after the vision passes.

I agree with AXIS that this is flavor text, but I don't think it's a rule he can break, regardless of pain tolerance. Time will tell.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Morgaln » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:20 am

WearsHats wrote:Maybe he didn't see it clearly. Maybe he just saw Minmax brokenhearted, but doesn't know the details. Enough to know there's great tragedy ahead, but not the specifics. We also don't know how much he can remember after the vision passes.

I agree with AXIS that this is flavor text, but I don't think it's a rule he can break, regardless of pain tolerance. Time will tell.


That's a nice theory, but unfortunately it doesn't fit the facts.
First, let's look at what Fumbles is actually saying. He's not saying that he cannot remember anything; he's not saying that he doesn't know the details; all of these would be strong arguments for why he cannot tell more. Instead, he's clearly saying that the reason he's not telling Minmax what will happen is because it would hurt Fumbles to do so. The message is clear: Fumbles could tell Minmax more, but he chooses not to; there's no other way to interpret this unless we assume Fumbles is making all of this up.
As for not being able to break a rule, there is no rule against telling what will happen in the future. We know that, because we have a very clear precedent on how prophecies work, and looking at it will give us several conclusions:


Remember that Young & Beautiful saw the future; she prophesied that if Thaco became chief of the clan, a civil war would destroy it. That future never happened, because Y&B took actions to prevent that future.
-> Our first conclusion is, therefore, prophecies are not inescapable; a future seen by a teller is not inevitable and can be changed if the teller is willing to take the necessary steps.

Next, Y&B did tell others about that future; we know for sure that both Thaco and Chief knew about it. Now she might have told Chief after the future had already been averted, but she did tell Thaco shortly after she had seen the future. We know that because as an additional precaution, Thaco left the clan for several years, so no one would try to make him chief after all.
-> So here's our second conclusion: it might be painful, but a teller can tell others about the future they saw, if they deem it necessary.

The third conclusion comes from a slightly different angle. Look at the names of the goblins: Complains of Names, Fumbles, Chief, Saves-A-Fox, Dies Horribly, Asks Nonsense, the list goes on and on. Traditional goblin names, given by the teller. By looking into the future of the goblin so named. Not to mention that the comic starts with Y&B using her power to see the future, then shares the stats of an attacking band of adventures she has seen with the other goblins.
-> This leads to the third conclusion: Not only can tellers see the future and tell about it, it is part of their duty to do just that. Sharing what they have seen is basically part of their job description. Accepting and dealing with the pain that comes with it is expected of them. Probably why they are called "tellers," you know.


So what does that tell us? Not only can Fumble have knowledge of the future, he is supposed to be sharing it to avoid bad things from happening. Admittedly, Minmax is not part of the goblin clan and Fumbles is probably not duty-bound to help him understand the prophecy. But seeing as Fumbles claims to care for Minmax, it's rather telling that he isn't willing to even slightly inconvenience himself to give Minmax the chance to avert a future tragedy. I guess the great friendship only goes skin-deep. Personally, I think Fumbles is a jerk for acting like this, but everyone has to decide that for themselves.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby mustache_man » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:50 am

Shardstorm wrote:The analogy holds fine. Those fine details you can't see because the Sun is a flaming mass of pain if you do so are exactly what he's talking about. He can already see the general shape of the prophesy, just as you can see the general shape of the Sun, but the details can't be discerned. He's not hiding anything. Fumbles isn't like that anyway.

You can't see fine details because you don't have telescopes for eyes. You can look directly at the sun and be just fine for a couple of seconds. It's not going to cause agonizing pain or blind you right there. Anyway, it's a bad analogy (but its not the worst in the comic), but at the end of the day it's just an analogy.
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby Rooks » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:07 am

Do we have any information (maybe given by Thunt outside of the comic) about how many imprints Fumbles actually "absorbed" (probably the wrong word, but I'm not remembering the exact wording)? How much did MinMax pulling him out affect his powers? Did it actually save him or would he have lived through the ceremony without MinMax?
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Re: Nov 19, 2017 - Like Looking At The Sun

Postby thinkslogically » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:05 am

Yeah, I'm also confused about why Fumbles isn't giving more information. I mean I get the analogy and have no problem with it per se, but it's hard to understand why he's apologising to minmax ~5 pages ago then refusing to explain why. Seems like a bit of a cop out to avoid explaining the prophesy to the audience.
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