April 12, 2016: How?

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April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Rndom » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:10 pm

Permalink: http://www.goblinscomic.org/04122016-2/

This is the panel that changes the comic forever: https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/statu ... 5998639104

oohhhbooyyy.



edit: shaded permalink: http://www.goblinscomic.org/04132016-2/
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Liesmith » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:16 pm

I'm not sure what's worse...the fact that the Axe broke, or that a piece hit Complains.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby vals_toy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:16 pm

After steeling myself for yet another heart-wrenching death scene, this absolutely floored me. Reality just hit the fan.

Edit: Here is the link to the first Axe of Prissan update.

http://www.goblinscomic.com/08122007/
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Knows little » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:17 pm

Yeah it's gotten worse, let see first kore, then these guys and now the demon has been released this is where a sudden jump to the saves and dies group would be the worst time to switch
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby miados » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:18 pm

oh #%@%# all i can think is someone thought that those demons were copies of the gap and minmax. The one big ears attacked i think was his opposite. while it was a demon it might have been part pally as well due to the perceived double aspect. what is the demon and pally did this?

Probably wrong but just a thought.

So many worries happening here. Kore is following. the ax broke (((went back to re read what its history was))) maybe its time with big ears wasn't enough to strengthen it enough after all that time with goblin slayers buddy. Just.....

although I am curious if this place really does make doubles will it make one of anything that comes out of the ax that will inherintly want to attack it?


edit: ok i was wrong. realized it was fumbles double he attacked.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Aegis J Hyena » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:27 pm

No, I agree, I believe the demons are mirror universe maze-of-many-esque versions of our heroes. Hitting one when, in their eyes, they're "good" (kinda) means performing an evil act (striking an innocent) = boom goes the axe.

Either that, or the prison was too weakened from Saral Caine to begin with.

I hate to say it but this seems too... contrived and out of nowhere. We have no warning that the axe is about to go explodey. There should have been a "Hey guys? I think the axe is going insane..." moment from Ears before the big explosion. At least a warning that something was incoming should have happened first.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Arch Lich Burns » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:31 pm

Meh. It broke for no real reason asides to kill characters. It shouldnt have broken for hitting a demon. An evil user had the axe and it did not break, a mistake should not have made it shatter.

At least that supports my 'ears is going to die theory'
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby vals_toy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:37 pm

The sudden, out-of-nowhere +1 to Complains' sword is the key to understanding this. Is that still the same one from the poorly locked treasure chest? If so, why does it look different? If not, where'd he get it? That random +1 is the only indication anyone is given that something is going wonky before the Axe breaks; that CANNOT be a coincidence.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Aegis J Hyena » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:43 pm

The sword Complains now has, he got "off camera", or so Thunt said in one of his streams, I believe.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby WearsHats » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:48 pm

Hmm, this page looked a lot different in pencils. I guessed wrong.

But the Axe breaks if used for an evil act. So... Either these creatures are innocent, and attacking one is evil, or Kore, still being a paladin, counts as Good aligned. Using the axe against him might have been evil, and this is (I think) the first time it's hit something since then.

I do think Kore and the Axe have some history, besides him having gotten the instant download on contact. The demon's release should, theoretically, keep him busy for a while, presuming he catches up soon.

One closing observation: There was an incident with the Axe. Ears didn't mean to break it. It was an axident.

Oh, as a reminder: Thunt and Danielle leave on vacation (their first non-working trip since they got married) in a few days, and they'll be gone for two weeks. So there's plenty of time to speculate before the next page goes up.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby vals_toy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:59 pm

I just checked the archives, and Complains' sword is from the vine snare room, just before the yum-yuck chamber. Thaco picked it up for a moment to test the properties of his new blindfold.

I'm starting to have a sneaking suspicion that there is FAR more to this dungeon than meets the eye. The entrance chamber, where the last person to speak is keyed to the Door Golem; what appear to be bizarro opposites of the GAP and MinMax; Fumbles' staff destroying the vines holding him and MM; and now a second weapon found in the Dragon's Maw is acting strangely.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Edit

When Complains asked Ears to detect evil on the GAPpelgangers, it seemed like Ears figured they'd be outside of his detection range. But when he tried, the sheer amount of evil made him physically ill. And then he sunk the Axe of Prissan into a being exuding that level of wickedness. I think that's what did it. No idea on specifics, though.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby CocoaNutCakery » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:08 pm

It's pretty obvious to me that what happened is Big Ears hit Complains' mirror self (Big Ears' mirror self is the short, green one, btw). When he did, he ended up hurting Complains because it was Complains' mirror. As the axe interpreted this as attacking a treasured companion (a wholly evil act) and the axe was very close to breaking due to its time with Saral Caine, it finished off the seal on the axe.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby vals_toy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:17 pm

CocoaNutCakery wrote:It's pretty obvious to me that what happened is Big Ears hit Complains' mirror self......When he did, he ended up hurting Complains because it was Complains' mirror. As the axe interpreted this as attacking a treasured companion (a wholly evil act) and the axe was very close to breaking due to its time with Saral Caine, it finished off the seal on the axe.


Oh my Herbert. That fits. I wish it didn't, but that fits.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby gharp » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:00 pm

CocoaNutCakery wrote:It's pretty obvious to me that what happened is Big Ears hit Complains' mirror self (Big Ears' mirror self is the short, green one, btw). When he did, he ended up hurting Complains because it was Complains' mirror.


Wouldn't Complain's mirror be the red one with the sword? I assumed the yellow one with the staff was Fumble's mirror, and Complain's was only hurt due to the axe shard embedded in his leg...

I wonder if it has anything to do with the axe hitting yellow mirror's staff? The staff is a mirror of Fumble's staff (spear?), and it's already had an odd effect in the dungeon with the vines...
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby seriouszombie » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:08 pm

vals_toy wrote:The sudden, out-of-nowhere +1 to Complains' sword is the key to understanding this. Is that still the same one from the poorly locked treasure chest? If so, why does it look different? If not, where'd he get it? That random +1 is the only indication anyone is given that something is going wonky before the Axe breaks; that CANNOT be a coincidence.


I saw a lot of people confused or wondering about Complains' sword and its enchantment. I forget why I think this, but I'm 90% sure that his sword gains a +1 each time the user jumps and/or lands in a tumble. Thunt said something about it being a very strong weapon if charged high enough. I *think* this was all explained in a livestream or tweet back when they found the sword (in the rope room). As for why Complains was confused about the sword I think that's Thunt trying to show that Complains has to learn how the sword works, he doesn't just KNOW what it does.

EDIT: Also it seems for now that Big Ears' armor isn't gonna disappear. That would be kinda cool since it looks so well on him.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby WearsHats » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:32 pm

CocoaNutCakery wrote:It's pretty obvious to me that what happened is Big Ears hit Complains' mirror self (Big Ears' mirror self is the short, green one, btw). When he did, he ended up hurting Complains because it was Complains' mirror. As the axe interpreted this as attacking a treasured companion (a wholly evil act) and the axe was very close to breaking due to its time with Saral Caine, it finished off the seal on the axe.


That was my interpretation when I saw the penciled version. But seeing it in color, it looks more like Complains was hurt when the Axe exploded. He was knocked around by the blast, then injured when a fragment of the Axe lodged itself in his leg.

Also, as someone pointed out on FB, the trouble with the Axe started earlier. Ears hurt Minmax, and then lied about it, with a rather evil grin:

http://www.goblinscomic.org/08242015-2/

Then, on the next page, the Axe wouldn't cut the vines:

http://www.goblinscomic.org/09062015-2/

As for the armor... It comes from the Axe. Which is currently cracked, but not yet fully broken. I think that's coming soon, and I expect the armor will go then.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Krulle » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:45 pm

The Demons are "good", and the Goblin party is evil.
That is my first interpretation.

So Minmax was right seeing only XP in these monsters.

This comic is about how humans see everyone else as humans too, when they're in fact not human.

;)

Or BE has done sufficiently good to have killed the imprisoned Demon for good, thus destroying the Axe, as it will not be needed anymore.

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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby miados » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:47 pm

just something I just noticed doing some look backs

http://www.goblinscomic.org/03132016-2/

If you look at the green one he is wielding an ax..... the ax is cracked..... cracked to the point where one hit might ruin it depending on how/who/what it hits

also I just realized the one ears hit was the mirror version of fumbles. not sure if it matters but....
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Rhe » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:12 am

Registered just to post!

Something I just thought of. The axe of Prussian update states that as it weakens, it begins to radiate and increasing sense of evil, in the hopes that it will attract a stronger paladin.

As far as we know, Kore is still a 'good' paladin (ie he has not 'fallen'). Perhaps he has been chasing them this hard because he detects the evil of the axe and has wrongly attributed it to them?

And on a similar note, when Big Ears does his Detect Evil on the demons and comments that they are "so evil", perhaps he was also detecting the axe itself (which was at breaking point) rather than the demons.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Guus » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:15 am

Whelp, it's not like BE was doing good deeds, and the prison weakens when it's not fueled with good deeds. It's not that you only need to do no evil, you need to actively do good. Still, for the axe to break like this is kind of surprising.

If the "hit by proxy" thing is what is happening I am going to be frustrated. That'd be the most meta bullshit ever. I'd walk away from the session if the DM would pull me a fast one like that.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby SpeaksManyLanguages » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:28 am

Look closely on the middle frame. The green creature's axe is also cracked. So probably the explanation is: these creatures' weapons copy party's weapons magic properties. So yes, that staff was probably a copy of the Fumble's staff with a "destroy magic items" special. That's why hitting it like that cracked the axe.

I don't think it had anything to do with evil acts. Mryorg did many more evil acts with it.

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Re: Aegis J Hyena
Thaco picked that sword up in the vines room. Complains took it from him. It wasn't off camera. However, it wasn't explained why Complains decided to run with this sword and just abandon his old +1. Outside of "they've all had to rush forward".

The sword is called a "Tumble sword". It has 12 marks, each highlights when the bearer performs a tumble. Thunt didn't say specifically, but so far one highlighted mark is +1 and the rule looks to be N of highlighted marks = +N enchantment. Thunt didn't talk about the rules of marks fading back.

Re: CocoaNutCakery's theory
No, it doesn't really fit. Fumbles was hurt by Complain's double last page and the wound wasn't mirrored to the Fumbles' double. Complains is only hurt on this page because he was standing nearby and a piece of the Axe shrapnelled into him. You see him on the explosion panel actually.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby SamWiser » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:44 am

Well this is the last thing that I expected. I don't think anybody called this one.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby Guus » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:06 am

If a staff that disrupts magic is enough to destroy the axe of prissan then the Paladins gave their lives for a very sucky construction. Also: aren't paladin powers divine and not magical? Or doesn't it work like that in 3.5?
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby CocoaNutCakery » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:29 am

gharp wrote:
CocoaNutCakery wrote:It's pretty obvious to me that what happened is Big Ears hit Complains' mirror self (Big Ears' mirror self is the short, green one, btw). When he did, he ended up hurting Complains because it was Complains' mirror.


Wouldn't Complain's mirror be the red one with the sword? I assumed the yellow one with the staff was Fumble's mirror, and Complain's was only hurt due to the axe shard embedded in his leg...

I wonder if it has anything to do with the axe hitting yellow mirror's staff? The staff is a mirror of Fumble's staff (spear?), and it's already had an odd effect in the dungeon with the vines...


You are indeed correct about that. My bad.

I have to agree with other commenters here in that the axe should not be as flimsy as to be destroyed by a random magic item. I still think it has something to do with attacking the mirror, rather than the staff. Or, rather, it wouldn't be the staff by itself (instead being a combination of the staff and the mirror).

(Edit: As WearsHats pointed out, the axe has been weakening. It's not just what he pointed out, however. Remember that Big Ears also attacked Kore from behind and didn't help Forgath against him, which could be seen as not entirely selfless.

I also think WearsHats might be correct about Kore having a history with the axe.)

SpeaksManyLanguages wrote:No, it doesn't really fit. Fumbles was hurt by Complain's double last page and the wound wasn't mirrored to the Fumbles' double. Complains is only hurt on this page because he was standing nearby and a piece of the Axe shrapnelled into him. You see him on the explosion panel actually.


That would just mean that it's not reciprocal. Given the fact that Thaco and Minmax weren't injured when they injured their own, it would be possible that it doesn't apply to your own. IE Big Ears would have to fight his own mirror. Granted, this was something that I suspected would be the case as the "catch" to the battle when it was first joined, and I'm thinking now that it doesn't apply. My point is more that your argument isn't necessarily valid proof against my suspicion.

SpeaksManyLanguages wrote:Look closely on the middle frame. The green creature's axe is also cracked.


So here's a question: What's trapped inside Green Ears' axe?

Edit: Oh. It was always cracked. Thank you for pointing that out, miados.
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Re: April 12, 2016: How?

Postby someone » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:52 am

Maybe it has something to do with the door golem returning the axe to minmax ( http://www.goblinscomic.org/02172016-2/ ) ?
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