August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Talos » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:00 pm

HerdsCats wrote:I'm not sure what you mean. It's been 10 years for us since he became a paladin,but for him in the comic it's been a few weeks. He's still a low level paladin who only recently joined the ranks of paladinhood. There are some things that cross over right away, like when he realized that he was no longer comfortable striking somebody from behind. Other things that are less "important" for Paladins to honor might take a while to kick in, if they kick in at all
The author can change his mind about exactly what he wants for his character in that time. While not exactly a "mood swing", it seems like the "paragon of goodness" has become "pretty good, but no Sir Galahad."

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Punzil504 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:34 pm

Forgath's a cleric and he enjoys messing with Minmax every now and then, too. Paladins can be about "justice" as well... the death of One-Eye was a key part of Ears' decision to become a paladin, dropping one of the guys who caused One-Eye's death on his head and enjoying it is kind of saying "OK, we're even..." even if it happened a while ago. Admitting it to Complains might as well be confessing his sins.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by HerdsCats » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:52 pm

But the story has been written in its entirety for the past decade. Thunt isn't going to "change what he wants" for the characters at this stage in the game.

Besides. Who ever decided that good=nice? You can be good and be a foul tempered little jackass, likewise you can be sweet as can be, but also evil while you're doing it. The important thing that measures your goodness is your actions.

Big Ears's actions were good. He released MinMax from the vines instead of leaving him to die like all the other adventurers, despite the fact that this dude is responsible for murdering his friends and/or family. The fact that he enjoyed watching MM land on his head is neither good nor bad, and has no impact on his overall goodness.
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Talos » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:15 pm

HerdsCats wrote:But the story has been written in its entirety for the past decade. Thunt isn't going to "change what he wants" for the characters at this stage in the game.

Besides. Who ever decided that good=nice? You can be good and be a foul tempered little jackass, likewise you can be sweet as can be, but also evil while you're doing it. The important thing that measures your goodness is your actions.

Big Ears's actions were good. He released MinMax from the vines instead of leaving him to die like all the other adventurers, despite the fact that this dude is responsible for murdering his friends and/or family. The fact that he enjoyed watching MM land on his head is neither good nor bad, and has no impact on his overall goodness.
Begging the question is no way to make a point. Regardless of when a change was made, it looks as if something was changed in his character at some point. Maybe not recently, but in the process of writing it. Even if that was over 10 years ago. It happens. It's not ruining the story. I never said that taking pleasure in the pain of another being automatically made him bad, but it does put a cap on just how good someone is, even if that is still a rather high cap. It's a downgrade from saint, at least. Or saintly warrior. Less Sir Galahad, more like "only" another knight of the round table. I admit it is a change from the borderline saintly dialogue from much earlier, although that's not quite new. The cursing was an earlier tip off. Even if far fewer people have issues with swearing than lying and enjoying someone's pain. A truly saintly character would not be happy to see someone else hurt, even if that person was evil, annoying, or had wronged him or his friends.

And actions alone do not measure goodness. Goodness plus mindset. Why one does something good matters too. Killing a bear who threatened to eat a girl because one wanted to save her life is better than killing the bear just because you wanted to turn it into a rug and didn't care about her at all. An evil character might have also saved MinMax, seeing as how it might be useful to have that dumb muscle on his side in a dangerous dungeon. Even Kore healed one of the goblins. Why he did it? To save Chief so he could provide torture porn for the next few pages. Not a truly good deed.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by WearsHats » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:48 pm

Thunt mentioned on the livestream recently (as well as at least a time or two in years past) that Ears is one of the very few times the story changed after the script was written. Originally, he was supposed to die in the initial attack on the war camp, with One Eye and the rest of the clan. But Thunt realized the story worked better with him, and that his character made sense as a paladin. Which then made him realize Ears might encounter the Axe. And things unfolded from there.

Thunt has also mentioned on another occasion that he usually plays paladins himself, when he's a player.

I think Ears is evolving as a character, as everyone in the comic has done in some way. Aas Talos said, Paladins don't have to be Galahad. They have to be Lawful Good, but they do have room for more of a personality than just that.

Heck, they're allowed to kill evildoers. As others have said, last time Ears saw Minmax, he'd partaken in slaughtering the war camp. I can't entirely blame him for giving Minmax a bit of a rough landing.

Even so... Hurting him, lying to his face about it, and then giggling about it... I don't think it's what I would have done. And there may be consequences. I don't think it's in him to be evil, and he knows how close the Axe is to breaking. I don't expect him to fall. And I don't think a moment of petty revenge counts as anything more than just that.
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Talos » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:04 pm

Yeah. Something tells me he's not getting the holy grail. Let's hope that the axe isn't in a "straw that broke the camel's back" mode.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Gryphonic » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:59 pm

I'm in the crowd that thinks this page wasn't that big of a deal, not by itself. Minmax has attacked Ears and his friends every time they've met, and killed his best friend along with most of the village. And he was shouting insults at the GAP just moments ago. Ears has shown a sense of humor in the past, and letting Minmax fall harder than neccessary is only mild payback - it's not like MM took any damage from it. And Good cleric Forgath has been telling white lies for entertainment at Minmax's expense for years (remember the 'dwarven secret' of revealing hidden doors?). In the context of the setting, this was petty but not certainly wicked.

Honestly, if Ears didn't deviate from the LG sterotype now and them he'd be very boring and two-dimensional. As long as this doesn't become a habit I think he's fine. Thaco's look is a little reproving, and he pushed Ears to admit he'd enjoyed it.

Oh, and this isn't the first time he's been okay with another of the party holding the Axe. He handed it to Thaco on the wagon escaping Brassmoon, and left him holding it for a page and a half after crossing the river. I have no doubt that if Complains had started to do anything objectionable, Ears would have grabbed it back again.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Talos » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:45 pm

I doubt that deviation from the LG ideal makes a character boring. Just look at Superman. Even so, as I have said, he doesn't need to be, Sir Galahad, Superman, or any number of saints to still be a paladin.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by HerdsCats » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:29 am

But superman IS boring...

And at any rate, ears has never been a completely flat character. He has his moments of "big good", but those have always been peppered with other instances of being a butt or being really silly. In this case, I believe his behavior is close to "being a silly butt". JMO

Although at this point I don't think any of us are really worried that he's going to fall. I just find it strange that people are saying BE is less of a paladin than some other paladin might be just because he enjoyed watching somebody fall on their head who probably definitely deserved it.
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Krulle » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:06 am

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by RocketScientist » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:55 am

Looks good. I'm really curious about the source of that yellow glow.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by HerdsCats » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:10 pm

I find it interesting that the gem on the staff changed from peach colored to blue. I know when he was coloring it in the stream, Thunt had an issue trying to get the color right, but this is such a huge departure that I find it a bit strange. According to his notes, it was described as being "tangerine" colored. But then when he actually did color it like that, it wound up lookin a little uh, phallic. So he lightened it up a bit and posted a more diluted orangey color. But now during shading it was changed yet again
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Talos » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:53 pm

HerdsCats wrote:But superman IS boring...

And at any rate, ears has never been a completely flat character. He has his moments of "big good", but those have always been peppered with other instances of being a butt or being really silly. In this case, I believe his behavior is close to "being a silly butt". JMO

Although at this point I don't think any of us are really worried that he's going to fall. I just find it strange that people are saying BE is less of a paladin than some other paladin might be just because he enjoyed watching somebody fall on their head who probably definitely deserved it.
Well, older Superman media can be boring. The newer stuff is generally a lot more interesting.

Is he less of a paladin? Only next to Sir Galahad and other exemplars of the title. At least, based on the conduct we have seen. I don't know what else he has done before or on the side. Remember, paladins are supposed to be merciful, even to those who deserve little. They fight because they have to save lives, not because they enjoy causing pain in any way. That expression in the fourth panel is really unbecoming of a Paladin, IMHO.
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Sessine » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:15 pm

HerdsCats wrote:I find it interesting that the gem on the staff changed from peach colored to blue. I know when he was coloring it in the stream, Thunt had an issue trying to get the color right, but this is such a huge departure that I find it a bit strange. According to his notes, it was described as being "tangerine" colored. But then when he actually did color it like that, it wound up lookin a little uh, phallic. So he lightened it up a bit and posted a more diluted orangey color. But now during shading it was changed yet again
I suppose that means the actual colour right now is not plot-significant and blue just turned out to give a better contrast. (Though given that Thunt has been known to introduce colour-shifting magic items -- Minmax's armour, that still-unexplained light in the first cave -- the gem's colour in this strip might only be its starting condition.)
RocketScientist wrote:Looks good. I'm really curious about the source of that yellow glow.
At first glance I thought the yellow light had been turned off in the last two frames, but then I realized the camera has spun 180 degrees. Minmax and Fumbles are in the next room, no longer backlit but facing the glow. Can't wait to see what it is!
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Krulle » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:43 am

BTW, Can someone correct the link in the first post. It leads to the wrong page altogether.

Thank you.
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by WearsHats » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:37 am

Krulle wrote:BTW, Can someone correct the link in the first post. It leads to the wrong page altogether.

Thank you.
Huh. You're right. I had to do it manually because the navigation arrows hadn't caught up to the new page yet*. I thought I'd double checked that I had the right date, but I guess I messed up. Thing is that I can't seem to find the right URL. The navigation arrow is there now, and it points to the right date, but the link gives a 404. Does anyone have the correct link? Did it change when the shaded version went up?

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Krulle » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:27 pm

look here: http://goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 25#p185908 ,
and yes, a new shading gives new date. (see transcription thread latest posts for examples)
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by RocketScientist » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:23 pm

fixed it

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by SpeaksManyLanguages » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:26 pm

If you're subscribed to RSS, the correct link is always there for the new item.
Actually, even if you don't subscribe to it, you can bring it up and get it from there, i guess.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Tofu » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:16 pm

Kamos wrote:I'd say it's well within the range of the Asshole Paladin alignment.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Mereneth » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:59 pm

Love will fuel hate.

Brotherly love.

Not sure just how...painful it would be to fumbles to be pulled like that.

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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Krulle » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:23 am

For years I've been looking at one about 20mugs of my wife.
And now I finally connected the text there with our big, yellow friend.
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(click to enlarge and turn it right... Don't know why it shows up upside down for me, but after click it's right...
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by HerdsCats » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:12 am

I've said that phrase since I was very small. It's a popular one in my family.
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Re: August 18, 2015 Watch for non-pointy sticks

Post by Krulle » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:30 am

I know that rhyming sentence too, but my wife has that cup since at least 4 years, yet I nvr read it such that I thought of our green one.... Why did I make a connection today?

Edit: I was always looking at the middle yellow rabbit, which looks very much like the breed we mostly have.
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