09-Aug-2015: Shching-thump

[Sessine]

But fists ARE a weapon and can be used as such. If intents matter then when punching someone they will be considered weapons and blind you.

I'd say you're overthinking it. Very much in the grand overthinking tradition of this forum, so applause, but...

It's called unarmed combat. Hands and feet are permanent parts of the body. They aren't separate devices. You can't set them aside and then pick them up again. So fists are not literally weapons -- only metaphorically so.

(I expect a prosthetic fist would count as a weapon, though.)

[Zathyr]

But Thaco went blind (as in the blindfold worked like a blindfold) just touching the Axe of Prissan. He didn't even pick it up and it didn't look like he was intending to use it. Looked more like he was just resting his hand on the handle.

[Xavier78]

Ah but how can nothing be a weapon or be used as such? He is literally holding nothig...

Well with the description at hand I'd say it's more what you're thinking. The fact that you know and/or think of it as a weapon is what blinds you.

Pretty much this. It's your intent,and not what you hold (or don't hold) in your hand. Oblivious is sort of a strange thing, because although "technically it doesn't exist", it can still effect things, and Minmax still thinks of it as his weapon. Thus negating your argument. Oblivious exists because mimax says for it to exist. He believes it to be his weapon, just as I now believe my butter knife to be my weapon. Now get the hell away from my fries you moocher.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember it being mentioned that no one but Minmax can even move Oblivious because of what it is. By your argument, that wouldn't be possible because Minmax "makes it exist" thus negating the "technically not existing" part of the sword so therefor anyone could move it... I'm probably over thinking it though.

Also, that Axe can cut through stone way to easily, as I mentioned before. That bugs me to no end.

[jokespoorly]

If Minmax makes a pirate's eyepatch with the cloth, he could at least gain a bonus when not holding Oblivious, right? Notwalter might be impressed (again).

He may be stupid, but he's unable to ignore the usefulness of a sophisticated adventuring tool...

JP

[Kamos]

Doesn't he have blind fighting in the very least?

But Thaco went blind (as in the blindfold worked like a blindfold) just touching the Axe of Prissan. He didn't even pick it up and it didn't look like he was intending to use it. Looked more like he was just resting his hand on the handle.

He still thinks it's a weapon while he's holding it, the only real qualifier for blindness. Which is why Minmax couldn't use it even if his sword is nothing. He still thinks he has a weapon.
The way I can see it is your hands and feet are just 'you', even when you attack you're hitting them with yourself. The axe and sword are 'weapons'. A kitchen knife is different in that's a 'tool' until you go to stab someone. Then, consciously or not, it becomes a 'weapon'.

Fun fact, even if it's not super relevant, 5th Edition actually released new errata going to great lengths to disqualify unarmed strikes from weapon status .

[YalaYalaGetDolla]

With the not very positive intent of hurting BE and satisfying oneself....

Doesn't it take like a month of bad deeds to release the demon? I think unless Ears let's Complains whale on him for several days straight they'll be fine.

[Krulle]

non-body-parts-weapons...?

[GathersIngredients]

It's called unarmed combat. Hands and feet are permanent parts of the body.

hrm, how do you move your hands without arms? SCNR.


Anyways. I just noticed how the axe of prissan didn't change color when either THAC0 or Complains were holding it. Is that WAI (working as intended), because BE still owns the axe so it remains his IME color, no matter who is holding it currently or is that unintentional?

also, I would have been VERY tempted to title this thread "therapeutic". Not sure if that would have been too spoiler-ish.

[Changes_everything]

Citing the punch line would have been a bit spoilerish, yeah...

[Morgaln]

Doesn't he have blind fighting in the very least?

But Thaco went blind (as in the blindfold worked like a blindfold) just touching the Axe of Prissan. He didn't even pick it up and it didn't look like he was intending to use it. Looked more like he was just resting his hand on the handle.

He still thinks it's a weapon while he's holding it, the only real qualifier for blindness. Which is why Minmax couldn't use it even if his sword is nothing. He still thinks he has a weapon.
The way I can see it is your hands and feet are just 'you', even when you attack you're hitting them with yourself. The axe and sword are 'weapons'. A kitchen knife is different in that's a 'tool' until you go to stab someone. Then, consciously or not, it becomes a 'weapon'.

Fun fact, even if it's not super relevant, 5th Edition actually released new errata going to great lengths to disqualify unarmed strikes from weapon status .

Well, technically you can define an axe as a tool used for woodcutting. As long as Big Ears can convince himself he's not using it as a weapon (like, defining combat as "pruning undesired growth"), he should be able to use one of the blindfolds.

[HerdsCats]

It's called unarmed combat. Hands and feet are permanent parts of the body.

hrm, how do you move your hands without arms? SCNR.


Anyways. I just noticed how the axe of prissan didn't change color when either THAC0 or Complains were holding it. Is that WAI (working as intended), because BE still owns the axe so it remains his IME color, no matter who is holding it currently or is that unintentional?

also, I would have been VERY tempted to title this thread "therapeutic". Not sure if that would have been too spoiler-ish.

Yeah, it didn't change color because he still owns it. In the feed Thunt said that his eyes will continue to glow for that reason as well. If somebody else claims the axe, BE would lose the glow and the axe would change color.

[Krulle]

also, I would have been VERY tempted to title this thread "therapeutic". Not sure if that would have been too spoiler-ish. :shrug:

It's Sara puked it!!

[Kamos]

Well, technically you can define an axe as a tool used for woodcutting. As long as Big Ears can convince himself he's not using it as a weapon (like, defining combat as "pruning undesired growth"), he should be able to use one of the blindfolds.

It's a little late in life to be restructuring his thought process. Might work during a bout of insanity though, who knows.

[Arch Lich Burns]

And what about a golem with sword hands? Or monster with claws? What is the line between weapon and not a weapon?

[Morgaln]

And what about a golem with sword hands? Or monster with claws? What is the line between weapon and not a weapon?

Or what about boots and gauntlets? What if those boots and gauntlets have spikes? You're still technically attacking with your hands and feet. Boxing gloves? Boxing gloves with barbed wire? Boxing gloves with a horseshoe inside? The definition of weapon can be very vague and arbitrary. Speaking from an RP point of view, this kind of vague limitation is a feast day for ingenious players and a nightmare for GMs.

[HerdsCats]

And what about a golem with sword hands? Or monster with claws? What is the line between weapon and not a weapon?

Or what about boots and gauntlets? What if those boots and gauntlets have spikes? You're still technically attacking with your hands and feet. Boxing gloves? Boxing gloves with barbed wire? Boxing gloves with a horseshoe inside? The definition of weapon can be very vague and arbitrary. Speaking from an RP point of view, this kind of vague limitation is a feast day for ingenious players and a nightmare for GMs.

Again, this is where the "intent of the player" comes into play. Boots and gauntlets are probably ok, but adding spikes to them to do more damage would probably make them "weapons" in intent.

[Arch Lich Burns]

Not if they are naturally mutated via magic they aren't weapons. Also what about horns? Or forgoth's helment? Or teeth?

What about polymorph hydras? Or regular hydras? Or bags of devouring?

[thinkslogically]

Does this not all come down to whether the player is about to make an attack or not? They declare an attack, declare what they're attacking with and we go to the stats...

I assumed thaco's blindness was artistic licence in the comic so that they could work out how the blindfolds work. Anyone else could have figured it out in a turn or two, without random axe touching but this way is quicker and keeps the story moving.

[Morgaln]

If the intent was to keep the story moving, it would have been better to build the revelation into the fight scene with the statues. Thaco could easily have picked up some discarded weapon during that fight and discovered the limitation that way. That would have made for a more dynamic and dramatic tie-in into the story. It's not even unrealistic, since until a short while ago, Thaco was carrying weapons and is therefore used to fighting with them instead of his hands and feet.

[Talos]

He'd better have some weak enemies, then. Uncovered, human-child-sized hands and feet won't do much damage compared to his previous weapons.

And Big Ears might want to turn that armor on again pretty quickly. Given what this dungeon likely has, he will need it.

[Guus]

I dunno, 4th has monk unarmed strike, that one's pretty brutal. +3 proficiency, 1d8 dmg. 1d10 with just one feat. I suspect 3.something to have roughly the same.

[lingrem]

Totally ignoring all conversation to add in my only real thought reading this page:

Where are the statues? How did that much conversation go on without them? Did they all get taken out the page before and I somehow missed that?? lol

ETA: Looking at it... yeah maybe he did. I just thought he only took out a few of them.

[Zathyr]

I dunno, 4th has monk unarmed strike, that one's pretty brutal. +3 proficiency, 1d8 dmg. 1d10 with just one feat. I suspect 3.something to have roughly the same.

3.x, there's the Improved Unarmed Strike feat (which Minmax has) but it just lets you do lethal damage and not provoke attacks of opportunity - doesn't up the damage. He still does a d3 + strength modifier, and any other modifiers like power attack so Minmax still does a lot of damage with his unarmed strikes even though the base die is just a d3. Monks get a better version, which starts at a d6 (d4 for small creatures, like Thaco) and scales up with more class levels.

[Krulle]

Totally ignoring all conversation to add in my only real thought reading this page:

Where are the statues? How did that much conversation go on without them? Did they all get taken out the page before and I somehow missed that?? lol

ETA: Looking at it... yeah maybe he did. I just thought he only took out a few of them.

I thought the same, but since there are now two opponents to fight, the have to draw new numbers, thus the pause...

[Generic]

Totally ignoring all conversation to add in my only real thought reading this page:

Where are the statues? How did that much conversation go on without them? Did they all get taken out the page before and I somehow missed that?? lol

ETA: Looking at it... yeah maybe he did. I just thought he only took out a few of them.

Yeah. Got a bit of a storytelling whiplash there. Fight is over? Ceiling full of dead gals should just have slowmotion danced and gone full out jedi to survive. That's all?